I appreciate the remarks.

I think we are perhaps looking at early data and discussing two separate
things: events versus trends. While I do not doubt K8S has been deployed on
OpenStack, I'm looking at how folks are planning to use those two
platforms. Is it possible to host one in another, absolutely. Is that
supportable at scale or discussed as a serious possibility. Rarely. Where I
believe things are going based on conversations and numerous roadmap
strategy sessions. literally no one I'm talking to talks about the combo as
making sense from a scale perspective whether it be too-big-to-fail banks,
network companies or SaaS companies. Again, this is my perception based on
the folks I'm taking to. That's not where I see the market shifting. And
that's certainly not what I see enterprises doing or planning to go.

On my end I'm seeing many in the OpenStack community falling into a
different trap - believing nothing needs to change to accommodate a
significant new element in the market or to plan a vision for the project
with a misunderstanding of it's place in the FOSS marketplace. The two
platforms do in fact compete as I see things as they are today - and with
increasing interest in orchestrating VM's with K8S, that competition will
likely become more distinct and OpenStack will face a very new
potentiality: OpenStack being considered versus something else. OpenStack
has been IT and the idea of a viable alternate hasn't happened for at least
5 years and I see K8S as a real potential challenger.

But again, everything may change next week and we'll all be wrong. ; )


*Adam Lawson*

Principal Architect
Office: +1-916-794-5706

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 5:14 AM, Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> wrote:

> On 19/04/17 11:17 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>
>> Adam Lawson wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>> I've been an OpenStack architect for at least 5+ years now and work with
>>> many large Fortune 100 IT shops. OpenStack in the enterprise is being
>>> used to orchestrate virtual machines. Despite the additional
>>> capabilities OpenStack is trying to accommodate, that's basically it. At
>>> scale, that's what they're doing. Not many are orchestrating bare metal
>>> that I've seen or heard. And they are exploring K8s and Docker Swarm to
>>> orchestrate containers. They aren't looking at OpenStack to do that.
>>>
>>
>> I have to disagree. We have evidence that some of the largest Kubernetes
>> deployments in the world happen on top of an OpenStack infrastructure,
>> and hopefully some of those will talk about it in Boston.
>>
>> I feel like you fall in the common trap of thinking that both
>> technologies are competing, while one is designed for infrastructure
>> providers and the other for application deployers. Sure, you can be a
>> Kubernetes-only shop if you're small enough or have Google-like
>> discipline (and a lot of those shops, unsurprisingly, were present in
>> Berlin), but most companies have to offer a wider array of
>> infrastructure services for their developers. That's where OpenStack, an
>> open infrastructure stack, comes in. Giving the infrastructure provider
>> a framework to offer multiple options to application developers and
>> operators.
>>
>
>
> Yes, this, a gazillion of times. I do _NOT_ think CNCF and OpenStack are
> (or
> need to be) in competition and I'd rather explore the different ways we can
> combine these 2 communities or, more specifically, some of the
> technologies that
> are part of these communities.
>
> To do this, we need to explore ways to make OpenStack more "flexible" so
> that we
> can allow different combinations of OpenStack, we need to allow people to
> use it
> more like a framework.
>
> I definitely don't mean it's the only thing and I'm really against calling
> almost anything "the one thing" (unless we're talking about pasta or
> pizza) and
> I believe falling into that trap would damage the community (we barely
> made it
> out in our early years/days).
>
>
> Flavio
>
> --
> @flaper87
> Flavio Percoco
>
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