-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Per Jessen wrote: > Pascal Bleser wrote: ... >> That may very well be constructive criticism, but what do you want ? >> Give some ideas, directions, proposals. > > Given that Novell/SUSE are already struggling with this internally and > have not really invited public participation in their discussion, I've > held back. When they're prepared to discuss this in the open, I'll add > my 2Rappen.
So basically you're still not giving an example of how you imagine the interaction between Novell and us. I still don't see where your problem is. Just citing your mail in this thread: "Decisions are made based on the commercial needs of Novell. At least that's how I interpret the answers to earlier questions asked along the same lines." I'd say that yes, it definately applies to certain decisions, such as what is included and supported in the SUSE Linux distribution (i.e. product management). And further on: "I certainly second this motion, but I suspect it belongs to the overall discussion of how open openSUSE is and/or is meant to be." Ok. So... what's your point here ? What makes you say openSUSE isn't open ? I wouldn't say openSUSE is open yet either, but why don't you give us some precise points why you don't think it is ? I'd be really interested to know, because I suppose you do have some valid points about it, and discussing that on this very list would be interesting and beneficial for everyone.. don't you think? But maybe I've found one thing that bothers you - citing you again, from a past mail on this list (http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse/2005-Sep/0517.html): "So we've hit the crux of the problem - which seems pretty critical. Although openSUSE is an "open" project, what goes and what doesn't is still decided by the commercial needs requirements of Novell/SuSE. In many ways also reasonably understandable, but it does beg the question - how open is OpenSUSE really? [...] Note - patches and proposals are only accepted provided they coincide with SuSEs commercial plans and requirements." >> You want to tell the SUSE devs what packages belong into the SUSE >> Linux product ? > Not me personally, no. There a few things I'd like to have a say in, > but which packages get included, I'm not too worried about. Err... ok.. so... it's not the packages. What's it then ? >> Are you going to do the support for those packages ? >> Are you going to test, QA it, take care of new releases, integrate >> and write security fixes, backport patches into those ? > > Nope, but that's beside the point. I don't think so. What I just wanted to say is that AFAICR several people on this list have been requesting some packages for inclusion and when having been said "no", they bashed openSUSE for not being "open". And that's exactly the point. One cannot, on one hand, expect that "openness" means that the SUSE Linux product management includes whatever package is requested, and on the other hand that it goes through the full cycle of packaging, testing, QA, security fixes, etc.. >> And if you don't care about the packaging, what is it exactly that you >> want to be able to do and that you currently cannot ? > > Pascal, all I said was that your statement "that anyone who wants a say > in the opensuse product/project management has no clue about it", is > wrong and more than a little arrogant. Product management, to me, means what packages are included in the product "SUSE Linux" (OSS or not). People who have requested packages for inclusion and who got a "no" in return and who say that's not ok, in my opinion, don't have a clue about what they're requesting. "arrogant" ? Sorry if I've let it sound like that. Maybe I was a bit too emotional about it ;P > As for my own participation in openSUSE, it's currently restricted to > bugreports only - I think there are many others areas where community > input would be useful. For instance (as you may be aware), I'd like to Definately. > have JFS install-support reinstated. I've also suggested how it could > be done with no impact whatsoever. However, just getting to talk to > the right people and not being turned down by level1&2 staff was just > far more hassle than I'm prepared to work with. Now tell me how that has nothing to do with my previous post and comments about people wanting to influence the product management.... ? cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDdkXYr3NMWliFcXcRAsP9AJ93XFnsaD3jpN9G7dU9ZT4gLtbj3wCfavDL VvZOtBksVC74ohX4V2/4OFo= =P0Lg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
