It's still the same architecture from the beginning. Only Improvements ;) And of course we will try to help as best as we can in case of questions about certain specialties.
Regards, Achim 2016-09-28 12:42 GMT+02:00 Niclas Hedhman <[email protected]>: > It is a learning experience/opportunity, and next time it will be > smoother. Also, almost without exceptions, someone who is working on fixing > something get answers when they ask, often quickly, because everyone here > wants new people to succeed and become more productive over time. > > Achim, Guilaume and others were not the originators of Pax Web either. > They dug into what we had at that time, and made improvements (or was it a > complete rewrite?)... I don't recall how much help they needed, but if they > needed it, "we" (who were more active then) tried our best to help us much > as we could. And I am sure this tradition still runs in this community, and > many others "out there"... > > Cheers > Niclas > > Niclas > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 6:15 PM, iJava <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Achim >> >> If no one of the developers do it in the nearest future then I will spend >> about 20 hours trying to fix it. >> It is obvious that it will be much more difficult for me because I don't >> know the inner architecture of pax-cdi >> and pax-web. >> >> But firstly I need Guillaume Nodet update pax-cdi 1.x branch to align >> with pax-web 6.x. >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> воскресенье, 25 сентября 2016 г., 12:20:02 UTC+3 пользователь Achim >> Nierbeck написал: >>> >>> Alexander, >>> >>> I still fear you miss the point of Open Source Software. And what the >>> free in free software means. [1] >>> It isn't about free as in free beer it is about free as in freedom to >>> read the sources, about the freedom to participate. >>> >>> And as I already stated previously to you. It certainly isn't a one-way >>> street where on the one end the "stupid" developers reside and the other >>> end is a consumer that just needs to bark loud enough. It's a give and >>> take, so think more about what you can give the community[2]. >>> How about you take some of your private time and try to fix the issue >>> which bothers you so much in your productive environment? >>> Maybe your employer, who obviously earns money while using this open >>> source software, gives you some time to fix the issue? >>> Or as Niclas already stated, find someone to do it for you and pay that >>> person. >>> >>> regards, Achim >>> >>> >>> [1] - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html >>> [2] - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/community >>> >>> 2016-09-25 9:04 GMT+02:00 iJava <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> Hi Niclas >>>> >>>> Thank you for detailed answers to my questions. Now I understand how >>>> this community is managed - >>>> to say more correctly how this community is unmanaged. >>>> >>>> To tell the truth it is a very strange for me - but this is of course >>>> my private opinion. I believe >>>> that bad plan is better then the absence of the plan. It is clear why - >>>> because with bad >>>> plan actions at least are coordinated. >>>> >>>> I am not a contributor and "don't dare" to make any suggestions. But >>>> about "dare" to use open sources >>>> projects. You know - I am developer, I develop some products and use >>>> other products. When I use some >>>> products it is clear that I want to know the future of the product, And >>>> it is quite common to see the roadmap >>>> of the project. Please, note it is quite common and in open source >>>> projects. >>>> >>>> By the way it would be helpful not only for users who "dare" to use the >>>> products. It would be helpful and for >>>> developers and they would have the questions like in this thread >>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ops4j/q8A4qniAtCg >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> воскресенье, 25 сентября 2016 г., 2:34:03 UTC+3 пользователь Niclas >>>> Hedhman написал: >>>>> >>>>> Alexander, >>>>> >>>>> To the question on how things are prioritized; It is very simple. The >>>>> person who wants to work on an issue places the priority on the issue. >>>>> Before anyone puts down his/her own name on the issue, it should actually >>>>> be marked "not prioritized" and if you disagree, simply change it, assign >>>>> the issue to yourself and work on it. There is a "Participation" in the >>>>> name here for a reason. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps so much time has passed that you and other relatively new >>>>> people to this community are unaware of the early principles and purpose >>>>> of >>>>> OPS4J, the "Flock of Birds" metaphor, the "If you are committed enough to >>>>> create a Jira issue, you are a committer". It was created as a pure code >>>>> collaboration platform[1] among peers, without hierarchies and as it >>>>> turned >>>>> out[2] without planned governance. It was partly a reaction to the "Avalon >>>>> break-down"[3] and "Barrier to Entry" that were discussed at Apache at the >>>>> time (~2005). >>>>> People like Toni, Achim, Pieber and many more started showing up with >>>>> patches, and I bet many were surprised to know that they had to apply >>>>> their >>>>> own patches, because the rest of us were either too busy or too lazy to do >>>>> it. Last time I checked (quite a few years ago), there had been >150 >>>>> contributors and ~600 subscribers to this list. That is about 25% had an >>>>> itch to fix, which is waaayyyy higher than places like Apache or Eclipse. >>>>> >>>>> So, I know that it can be quite frustrating when something doesn't >>>>> work to one's expectations, and I am also aware that everyone doesn't have >>>>> the skills to fix it, but those people generally don't dare to use open >>>>> source directly, because they know (or should know) that there is no >>>>> "support to call"[4], and they typically pay people to handle it. What IS >>>>> common though, is that people (like myself) have the skills, but think >>>>> that >>>>> they don't have time, or that "someone else ought to fix it soon enough", >>>>> and meanwhile one just hangs in there... IF it is truly a Blocker, then >>>>> one >>>>> needs to drop everything else and indeed fix it. If other things are more >>>>> important, then it can NOT be a Blocker, possibly not even a Major issue. >>>>> >>>>> I am sorry if this comes across as harsh, but OPS4J is a "do-acracy". >>>>> Those who do the work, decides what work to be done. MANY of the >>>>> contributors here, are WAY MORE accommodating to user's requests than >>>>> initially anticipated, and all the KUDOS to them. But maybe, just maybe, >>>>> that has increased the expectations a tad too high. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [1] Back then (~2005-2009), we ran our own servers, with mailing >>>>> lists, Subversion, Confluence, Jira, Bamboo, Jenkins, Crowd and what not. >>>>> An automated process, so that if you signed up on Crowd, you got commit >>>>> rights automatically in Subversion. Back then, the managed services that >>>>> we >>>>> enjoy today, simply didn't exist. Keeping that alive was actually more >>>>> work >>>>> than we had expected, and eventually we compromised the "auto committer" >>>>> system, in favor of externally managed services. >>>>> >>>>> [2] In the very early days, a governance model was established, but it >>>>> fell apart because I think we all felt that it wasn't needed. There might >>>>> be pages still discussing this on the Wiki, but those can safely be >>>>> removed. >>>>> >>>>> [3] In Apache Avalon, a lot of people got involved in "you must do X", >>>>> "you can't do Y", but those people didn't do the work, but based their >>>>> opinions on either past contributions, or that they were a user depending >>>>> on the codebase. The community got fractured like politics, and it wasn't >>>>> fun. It got to the point where one release candidate contained a single >>>>> constructor Javadoc edit (and nothing else), and I was accused of breaking >>>>> compatibility by outsiders, who had no interest in working on the project. >>>>> >>>>> [4] If you need "paid support" on OPS4J, contact me privately and I >>>>> will try to give you some choices. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Niclas >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 10:17 PM, iJava <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am also user of this list and let me add my two cents. >>>>>> To tell the truth, I don't understand how the developers of pax-web >>>>>> set priorities for the issues. >>>>>> >>>>>> I did report about the problem https://ops4j1.jira.com/browse >>>>>> /PAXWEB-760 >>>>>> How important is this problem - this problem doesn't let update >>>>>> bundle of the site >>>>>> which is in production. This is core functionality as it is used >>>>>> constantly. In our company >>>>>> it would be issue number one - there is nothing more important then >>>>>> core functionality. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example - if you develop a text editor and it can't save files >>>>>> you don't >>>>>> think about button hover animation. Could anyone explain what >>>>>> principles >>>>>> are followed when next issues are chosen. Is there some roadmap of >>>>>> the project? >>>>>> I already asked about plans but unfortunately didn't get any answers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>> OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "OPS4J" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer >>>>> http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> ------------------ >>>> OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - [email protected] >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "OPS4J" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Apache Member >>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC >>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer >>> & Project Lead >>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/> >>> Co-Author of Apache Karaf Cookbook <http://bit.ly/1ps9rkS> >>> >>> Software Architect / Project Manager / Scrum Master >>> >>> -- >> -- >> ------------------ >> OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - [email protected] >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "OPS4J" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer > http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java > > -- > -- > ------------------ > OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - [email protected] > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "OPS4J" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Apache Member Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer & Project Lead blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/> Co-Author of Apache Karaf Cookbook <http://bit.ly/1ps9rkS> Software Architect / Project Manager / Scrum Master -- -- ------------------ OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - [email protected] --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OPS4J" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
