I like the link..Joe has a good point..the community should help. Funny
thing is, I tried helping, a few times. I sent some emails to either you, or
maybe it was Joe? I can't remember. I was going to demonstrate my Theseus
MVC framework, which is built for speed and scalability including clustering
support (by calling the setAttribute() method after every request on every
bean an action uses to ensure it gets replicated incase any changes were
made to it). I wanted to see if Orion would distirbute Theseus (and my
examples of how to use it in general, and with Orion). I got no response. My
company wanted to distribute an EJB server to a possible 10,000 or more
clients. Orion was our choice until I got no response... JBoss has since
assumed that responsibility and thus far has returned better performance and
you can't beat it on the cost, not to mention the support for it is far
better than I have seen from Orion. As a paying customer, I have asked Karl
and/or Magnus directly (to them via email) about some detailed info on Orion
that I needed to know so that I could properly load-test the site and
monitor its scalability capabilities... all to no avail.
I have been actively involved with Orion since the .7+ version of it, as I
am sure you and a few others that know me are. If you want proof, you can
feel free to call any of the developers I work with. They are so sick of
hearing me talk about how great Orion is, and what new neat feature I can do
with it now that we are deployed on Orion. Hell, even my wife knows more
about Orion that most people.
Every now and again, the Orion team disappears, not to be heard from. What
this list needs to see is some responses from the team directly every week
or two, that the product is going to continue or at least some status update
of what to look forward to and for God's sake..in what time frame! When is
EJB 2.0 going to be fully impelemnted? How about JSP 1.2? Servlet 2.3? I
know there are some parts supported, and the final specs are not done yet,
but there are many app servers now support the latest EJB 2.0, Servlet 2.3
and JSP 1.2, and Orion, the one app server that used to be dependable to be
ahead of the game, is now behind. What is worse, noone has any clue as to
when we will see the next build, what it will contain, when all these
features that the rest of the pack now has implemented (or is close to it)
will make its way into a new build. I haven't seen an update for two months,
and there are still some users with production systems having problems
because of bugs with Orion that are not getting fixed. HTTPS Clustering
doesn't work and thats a big deal for a lot of big companies that would want
a scalable app server that is secure.
Needless to say, Orion is still a great product, and I have often thought
they should charge more for it. But upon not receiving any sort of support
from them despite that they say when you pay for it you get 1 year of
support (or is it 6 months?), I don't feel that I can recommend Orion over
other products that are comparable in price (or free) that offer better
support and more features. JBoss is a great example of a damn good piece of
software put together in an open-source effort and is free. Again, as soon
as I get the rest of our site on EJB, and IF Orion and Jboss both support
the same .ear file with no problems, I will definitely do some load testing
and post the results so others can see.
Oh well, Orion is simple to use, built by two developers which to me is damn
impressive when you compare it to the other servers on the market. But
still..if your going to have a product and make money from it, you should
support it, at least via the very cheap email system.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael J. Cannon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:50 AM
> To: Orion-Interest
> Subject: Re: I think, I will start a support site too....
>
>
> answers inline
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Clinton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: I think, I will start a support site too....
>
>
> > Um......
> >
> > are you serious with this example? I am sure I can find an
> example of a
> > website running on IIS where some pre-teenage girl posts
> pictures of her
> > pet cat - that doesn't mean I can use it for a high-availablilty
> > load-balanced application.
> >
>
> I was just responding to Mr. Paransky, that, despite all of
> his complaints
> about using Orion as a basis for communications, he was doing
> EXACTLY that.
>
> > I reread your post searching for where I missed the joke,
>
> Look at the sender of the original message I was replying to,
> then look at
> who owns the web page.
>
> >but I think
> > you are serious. So, I will agree with you: the quality
> of the orion
> > mailing list is appropriate for a product meant to host
> collections of
> > personal "under construction" pages.
>
> Actually, as I said, I think that it is a valuable exercise
> in valence and
> load testing of the app server in a 'worst-case' scenario.
> However, I too
> would like to see it on GNU Mailman. I don't think it will
> be, though. So,
> I've learned to live with it, because it does not belong to me.
>
> I would suggest the developers and owners of IronFlare read
> the ClueTrain
> Manifesto (at http://www.cluetrain.com/) but, they're Swedish, they're
> (hopefully) busy, and the site and maillist belongs to them
> (and they charge
> me nothing to subscribe).
>
> As to why it is hosted in the way it is, Orion is a private company,
> therefore, it's none of my business. Keep in mind, OC4J is Orion,
> therefore, Oracle OC4J maillists and fora at OTN and the
> Oracle USENET feed
> are available to you, if you wish (although there is a high
> amount of noise
> there), as are the other support sites that were Mr.
> Paransky's origin for
> this thread's beginning.
>
> BTW, when these issues concerned me, in April, I was pointed to the
> following link:
> http://www.orionsupport.com/articles/vision.html
>
> I now prefer to see this list as a node in that vision. If
> I need help,
> there are many places for me to find it and I always come
> back and post my
> experience here (if it is not already in the archive).
>
> Finally, keep in mind that we don't know for sure WHAT
> platform the server
> uses for this maillist. The problems could be hardware or incompetent
> hosting...or the whole thing could be a succesful experiment.
> Given the
> number of successful sites up and running Orion, as compared
> to Websphere
> and Weblogic, I think the case can be made for the latter,
> rather than any
> of the former.
>
> Mike
>
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > Michael J. Cannon wrote:
> >
> > ----snip----
> > > ....and if Orion is good enough for you to run a web site
> - (and it is:
> > > http:/www.standardset.com/ )
> > > well, it should be good enough for Orion, especially since they
> developed it
> > > and this is one of the 'load and valence test platforms
> (if it does
> indeed
> > > run on Orion) for the product.
> >
> > ----snip----
> >
> >
> >
>
