That's good to hear. I've heard nothing but great things about Eclipse.
I didn't know that it was so easy to extend, though. I thought that you had to
compile a plug-in and install it?
To contrast, in Emacs, you can just switch to the *scratch* buffer, type a
couple lines of code, hit ctrl-c, ctrl-e, and now that code is active in your
system. Another benefit about it being that quick is that you can revise the
code as you work. For instance, when I first wrote that "function tracer", I
forgot to include the "static" keyword. The first I time I traced a function
with "static" in it, it didn't work, but it took literally 10 seconds to fix
and keep coding.
***I'm trying to keep this on the topic of automating your Actionscript coding,
a la The Pragmatic Programmer, btw, not a pro-Emacs campaign. If anyone wants
to hear a bunch of opinions about why one editor is better than another, there
is a wealth of discussion on the web.
-austin
On Wed Jan 03 11:39 , Jim Kremens wrote:
> I can't believe I'm chiming in on this, but everything you described
> is also possible in Eclipse....
>
> " In emacs, when you open a java file, a java mode is loaded, which
> sets up the environment for editing java code."
>
> same in Eclipse
>
> "Commands to move across blocks of code work in Python the same as
> C++, even though Python uses indentation for blocks and C++ uses
> braces."
>
> Same in Eclipse, though I don't know of good C++ or Python editors for
> Eclipse.
>
> "That is a pain in the ass, so I made a function, bound to F5, that
> automatically inserts that trace statement for whichever function the
> cursor is currently within. Each of those functions probably took me
> 10-15 minutes to add and immediately incorporate into my work."
>
> Also easy to do in Eclipse.
>
> No surprise! Both platforms have been evolving for a long time. Both
> development teams have sought to make the ultimate editor, and so
> they've arrived at a lot of similar features!
>
> I will say that I've learned a lot about Emacs in this thread, which is
> nice...
>
> To each his own...
>
> Jim Kremens
>
> On 1/3/07, Austin Haas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hank, I think you are confused about how editors can handle multiple
> > languages. In emacs, when you open a java file, a java mode is loaded,
> > which sets up the environment for editing java code. When you code in
> > actionscript, it uses an actionscript mode. In each of these modes,
> > everything about the editor is setup just like it was an editor just for
> > that language alone, including everything from syntax highlighting to
> > commands to compile your code.
> >
> > The reason that supporting multiple languages is a good thing, is that the
> > vast majority of the functionality of a text editor is the same, regardless
> > of the language (e.g. search and replace, navigation), so Emacs has been
> > able to benefit from features that Java users wanted and were applicable to
> > other languages. Likewise, the interface can also be language independant.
> > Commands to move across blocks of code work in Python the same as C++, even
> > though Python uses indentation for blocks and C++ uses braces.
> >
> > I'm not trying to start an editor war. I couldn't care less what anyone
> > else uses. I just want to make sure there isn't any FUD going on.
> >
> > To get back to the original poster's question, I don't think there is any
> > reason to believe that separate "language specific" editors are inherently
> > better than a single editor. Look at it this way, it would be entirely
> > possible to combine all of those editors into one application which would
> > switch the editor "under the covers" whenever you switch to a document in
> > another language. That is analogous to what Emacs does.
> >
> > To address the issue of why the Pragmatic Programmers might suggest Emacs,
> > the basic message of that entire book is that you should automate
> > everything that you can. In Emacs that is very easy, because the editor can
> > be customized quickly and easily. To illustrate, I found myself writing the
> > same boilerplate code every time I created a new actionscript file, so I
> > wrote a very small function to insert that code every time I create and new
> > file ending in .as. For debugging, I found myself tracing out function
> > signatures quite often, e.g.
> >
> > trace(this + ".someFunction(" + arg1 + "," + arg2 + ")");
> >
> > That is a pain in the ass, so I made a function, bound to F5, that
> > automatically inserts that trace statement for whichever function the
> > cursor is currently within. Each of those functions probably took me 10-15
> > minutes to add and immediately incorporate into my work.
> >
> > I totally agree with Hank, though, that it's not for everyone, but, if you
> > are interested enough to read books on how to become a better programmer,
> > you might find that it's worth it. I think the same goes for using a shell
> > and Linux, for that matter.
> >
> > -austin
> >
> > On Wed Jan 03 09:19 , hank williams wrote:
> > > On 1/3/07, jtgxbass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Hank,
> > > >
> > > >My summarized response is, that for most people, this does not make sense
> > > >> primarily because so much work has gone into specialized editors that
> > > >really
> > > >> fit a *given language* like a glove. Moreover, Most people have decided
> > > >that
> > > >> they like GUI and don't like command line only.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >The problem with your "responses" is that you make soo many assumptions.
> > > >You say things like "most people". How can you be soo sure?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Ok, well if you dont agree that most people are using gui editors, thats
> > > fine. It seems obvious to me from all the work I do and all the lists I am
> > > on, but If you dont agree then so be it. I wont try to convince you.
> > >
> > >
> > > With all the people worldwide I program with on various closed and open
> > > >source projects, "most" use cmd line based tools. But I am not saying
> > > >that
> > > >is a true reflection, how could I possibly know.
> > > >
> > > >Back to the topic...
> > > >What makes you think editors like vim, emacs are not as good as
> > > >specialized editors? Forget GUI vs cmd line, personally I find these
> > > >specialized editors a pain to use mainly because I have to remember the
> > > >key
> > > >bindings specific to each one when I launch and use it. I code in AS,
> > > >C/C++
> > > >and Java mainly. If I use separate editors for each of these (and on the
> > > >different platforms I work on too - Linux, Mac, PC, I /could/ end up
> > > >having
> > > >to learn and switch between 6 different editors. Any perceived benefits
> > > >of
> > > >any of these "specialized" editors soon disappears IMHO.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I understand that this is your preference. Nothing wrong with that. But I
> > > just dont believe more people use emacs or vim than eclipse for editing
> > > java. This is based on mailing lists, quantity of books on the subject,
> > > etc.
> > > But if you want to argue that more people or an equivalent number of
> > > people
> > > use emacs & vim for java, then it will just have to be your opinion vs
> > > mine.
> > >
> > > For me, I have found an editor (vim) that does gives me all the features I
> > > >expect from a code editor and these features work with all the languages
> > > >I
> > > >code in. I can code on any platform and not have to learn/switch between
> > > >various key-bindings. I have code completion, syntax highlighting, code
> > > >folding, code templates among other great things. I dont want integrated
> > > >help, wizards or the like.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I suspect you are a far better programmer than me. I need lots of help and
> > > wizards and the like.
> > >
> > >
> > > And I'm sorry but your assertion that a "specialized" editor could fit a
> > > >language like a glove, perhaps you could explain to me how any one
> > > >language
> > > >is soo different to another. Of course there are arcane examples, but
> > > >most
> > > >languages are very similar (Java-AS3 for example).
> > > >
> > >
> > > An AS3 editor cannot find my java errors and make java code suggestions,
> > > and
> > > complete my java functions. The converse would of course also be true. My
> > > AS3 editor also cannot refactor my java code. But I understand that you
> > > dont
> > > need these things. I, of course do. And as I have said several times in
> > > this
> > > thread with no sarcasm meant at all, I am sure you are a far better
> > > programmer than I am with a far better memory, and that is why you dont
> > > need
> > > any help. My belief is that most people need such help, which is why
> > > eclipse
> > > and visual studio are so popular. I know your argument is that they are
> > > not
> > > so popular compared to emacs and vim, and on that point we will obviously
> > > have to disagree.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Hank
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > osflash mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > Austin Haas
> > Pet Tomato, Inc.
> > http://pettomato.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osflash mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Kremens
>
> _______________________________________________
> osflash mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
>
--
Austin Haas
Pet Tomato, Inc.
http://pettomato.com
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