Are you trying to start another war? In the case that are being genuine, I
don't think it matters which OS you use. I use Gentoo Linux. I believe that a
lot of mac users use a version of Emacs calle Aquaemacs (or something like
that). If you open a terminal on OSX, I think a console version of emacs is
already installed. On Windows, you can get the standalone Emacs or you can use
the version available through Cygwin. Personally, I prefer the Cygwin version,
because you launch Emacs from a shell, which gives you the ability to interface
with more programs, such as a compiler.
There is a fork of Emacs called XEmacs, but I don't know much about it, other
than it is a popular alternative.
-austin
On Wed Jan 03 11:45 , Marc Hughes wrote:
> So if I were to use emacs... should I use it on a mac or a pc?
>
> On 1/3/07, Jim Kremens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I can't believe I'm chiming in on this, but everything you described
> > is also possible in Eclipse....
> >
> > " In emacs, when you open a java file, a java mode is loaded, which
> > sets up the environment for editing java code."
> >
> > same in Eclipse
> >
> > "Commands to move across blocks of code work in Python the same as
> > C++, even though Python uses indentation for blocks and C++ uses
> > braces."
> >
> > Same in Eclipse, though I don't know of good C++ or Python editors for
> > Eclipse.
> >
> > "That is a pain in the ass, so I made a function, bound to F5, that
> > automatically inserts that trace statement for whichever function the
> > cursor is currently within. Each of those functions probably took me
> > 10-15 minutes to add and immediately incorporate into my work."
> >
> > Also easy to do in Eclipse.
> >
> > No surprise! Both platforms have been evolving for a long time. Both
> > development teams have sought to make the ultimate editor, and so
> > they've arrived at a lot of similar features!
> >
> > I will say that I've learned a lot about Emacs in this thread, which is
> > nice...
> >
> > To each his own...
> >
> > Jim Kremens
> >
> > On 1/3/07, Austin Haas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hank, I think you are confused about how editors can handle multiple
> > > languages. In emacs, when you open a java file, a java mode is loaded,
> > > which sets up the environment for editing java code. When you code in
> > > actionscript, it uses an actionscript mode. In each of these modes,
> > > everything about the editor is setup just like it was an editor just for
> > > that language alone, including everything from syntax highlighting to
> > > commands to compile your code.
> > >
> > > The reason that supporting multiple languages is a good thing, is that
> > > the vast majority of the functionality of a text editor is the same,
> > > regardless of the language (e.g. search and replace, navigation), so
> > > Emacs has been able to benefit from features that Java users wanted and
> > > were applicable to other languages. Likewise, the interface can also be
> > > language independant. Commands to move across blocks of code work in
> > > Python the same as C++, even though Python uses indentation for blocks
> > > and C++ uses braces.
> > >
> > > I'm not trying to start an editor war. I couldn't care less what anyone
> > > else uses. I just want to make sure there isn't any FUD going on.
> > >
> > > To get back to the original poster's question, I don't think there is any
> > > reason to believe that separate "language specific" editors are
> > > inherently better than a single editor. Look at it this way, it would be
> > > entirely possible to combine all of those editors into one application
> > > which would switch the editor "under the covers" whenever you switch to a
> > > document in another language. That is analogous to what Emacs does.
> > >
> > > To address the issue of why the Pragmatic Programmers might suggest
> > > Emacs, the basic message of that entire book is that you should automate
> > > everything that you can. In Emacs that is very easy, because the editor
> > > can be customized quickly and easily. To illustrate, I found myself
> > > writing the same boilerplate code every time I created a new actionscript
> > > file, so I wrote a very small function to insert that code every time I
> > > create and new file ending in .as. For debugging, I found myself tracing
> > > out function signatures quite often, e.g.
> > >
> > > trace(this + ".someFunction(" + arg1 + "," + arg2 + ")");
> > >
> > > That is a pain in the ass, so I made a function, bound to F5, that
> > > automatically inserts that trace statement for whichever function the
> > > cursor is currently within. Each of those functions probably took me
> > > 10-15 minutes to add and immediately incorporate into my work.
> > >
> > > I totally agree with Hank, though, that it's not for everyone, but, if
> > > you are interested enough to read books on how to become a better
> > > programmer, you might find that it's worth it. I think the same goes for
> > > using a shell and Linux, for that matter.
> > >
> > > -austin
> > >
> > > On Wed Jan 03 09:19 , hank williams wrote:
> > > > On 1/3/07, jtgxbass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >Hank,
> > > > >
> > > > >My summarized response is, that for most people, this does not make
> > > > >sense
> > > > >> primarily because so much work has gone into specialized editors that
> > > > >really
> > > > >> fit a *given language* like a glove. Moreover, Most people have
> > > > >> decided
> > > > >that
> > > > >> they like GUI and don't like command line only.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >The problem with your "responses" is that you make soo many
> > > > >assumptions.
> > > > >You say things like "most people". How can you be soo sure?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok, well if you dont agree that most people are using gui editors, thats
> > > > fine. It seems obvious to me from all the work I do and all the lists I
> > > > am
> > > > on, but If you dont agree then so be it. I wont try to convince you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > With all the people worldwide I program with on various closed and open
> > > > >source projects, "most" use cmd line based tools. But I am not saying
> > > > >that
> > > > >is a true reflection, how could I possibly know.
> > > > >
> > > > >Back to the topic...
> > > > >What makes you think editors like vim, emacs are not as good as
> > > > >specialized editors? Forget GUI vs cmd line, personally I find these
> > > > >specialized editors a pain to use mainly because I have to remember
> > > > >the key
> > > > >bindings specific to each one when I launch and use it. I code in AS,
> > > > >C/C++
> > > > >and Java mainly. If I use separate editors for each of these (and on
> > > > >the
> > > > >different platforms I work on too - Linux, Mac, PC, I /could/ end up
> > > > >having
> > > > >to learn and switch between 6 different editors. Any perceived
> > > > >benefits of
> > > > >any of these "specialized" editors soon disappears IMHO.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I understand that this is your preference. Nothing wrong with that. But
> > > > I
> > > > just dont believe more people use emacs or vim than eclipse for editing
> > > > java. This is based on mailing lists, quantity of books on the subject,
> > > > etc.
> > > > But if you want to argue that more people or an equivalent number of
> > > > people
> > > > use emacs & vim for java, then it will just have to be your opinion vs
> > > > mine.
> > > >
> > > > For me, I have found an editor (vim) that does gives me all the
> > > > features I
> > > > >expect from a code editor and these features work with all the
> > > > >languages I
> > > > >code in. I can code on any platform and not have to learn/switch
> > > > >between
> > > > >various key-bindings. I have code completion, syntax highlighting, code
> > > > >folding, code templates among other great things. I dont want
> > > > >integrated
> > > > >help, wizards or the like.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I suspect you are a far better programmer than me. I need lots of help
> > > > and
> > > > wizards and the like.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And I'm sorry but your assertion that a "specialized" editor could fit a
> > > > >language like a glove, perhaps you could explain to me how any one
> > > > >language
> > > > >is soo different to another. Of course there are arcane examples, but
> > > > >most
> > > > >languages are very similar (Java-AS3 for example).
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > An AS3 editor cannot find my java errors and make java code
> > > > suggestions, and
> > > > complete my java functions. The converse would of course also be true.
> > > > My
> > > > AS3 editor also cannot refactor my java code. But I understand that you
> > > > dont
> > > > need these things. I, of course do. And as I have said several times in
> > > > this
> > > > thread with no sarcasm meant at all, I am sure you are a far better
> > > > programmer than I am with a far better memory, and that is why you dont
> > > > need
> > > > any help. My belief is that most people need such help, which is why
> > > > eclipse
> > > > and visual studio are so popular. I know your argument is that they are
> > > > not
> > > > so popular compared to emacs and vim, and on that point we will
> > > > obviously
> > > > have to disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Hank
> > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Austin Haas
> > > Pet Tomato, Inc.
> > > http://pettomato.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > osflash mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Kremens
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osflash mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> osflash mailing list
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> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
>
--
Austin Haas
Pet Tomato, Inc.
http://pettomato.com
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