I can't believe I'm chiming in on this, but everything you described
is also possible in Eclipse....
" In emacs, when you open a java file, a java mode is loaded, which
sets up the environment for editing java code."
same in Eclipse
"Commands to move across blocks of code work in Python the same as
C++, even though Python uses indentation for blocks and C++ uses
braces."
Same in Eclipse, though I don't know of good C++ or Python editors for Eclipse.
"That is a pain in the ass, so I made a function, bound to F5, that
automatically inserts that trace statement for whichever function the
cursor is currently within. Each of those functions probably took me
10-15 minutes to add and immediately incorporate into my work."
Also easy to do in Eclipse.
No surprise! Both platforms have been evolving for a long time. Both
development teams have sought to make the ultimate editor, and so
they've arrived at a lot of similar features!
I will say that I've learned a lot about Emacs in this thread, which is nice...
To each his own...
Jim Kremens
On 1/3/07, Austin Haas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hank, I think you are confused about how editors can handle multiple
> languages. In emacs, when you open a java file, a java mode is loaded, which
> sets up the environment for editing java code. When you code in actionscript,
> it uses an actionscript mode. In each of these modes, everything about the
> editor is setup just like it was an editor just for that language alone,
> including everything from syntax highlighting to commands to compile your
> code.
>
> The reason that supporting multiple languages is a good thing, is that the
> vast majority of the functionality of a text editor is the same, regardless
> of the language (e.g. search and replace, navigation), so Emacs has been able
> to benefit from features that Java users wanted and were applicable to other
> languages. Likewise, the interface can also be language independant. Commands
> to move across blocks of code work in Python the same as C++, even though
> Python uses indentation for blocks and C++ uses braces.
>
> I'm not trying to start an editor war. I couldn't care less what anyone else
> uses. I just want to make sure there isn't any FUD going on.
>
> To get back to the original poster's question, I don't think there is any
> reason to believe that separate "language specific" editors are inherently
> better than a single editor. Look at it this way, it would be entirely
> possible to combine all of those editors into one application which would
> switch the editor "under the covers" whenever you switch to a document in
> another language. That is analogous to what Emacs does.
>
> To address the issue of why the Pragmatic Programmers might suggest Emacs,
> the basic message of that entire book is that you should automate everything
> that you can. In Emacs that is very easy, because the editor can be
> customized quickly and easily. To illustrate, I found myself writing the same
> boilerplate code every time I created a new actionscript file, so I wrote a
> very small function to insert that code every time I create and new file
> ending in .as. For debugging, I found myself tracing out function signatures
> quite often, e.g.
>
> trace(this + ".someFunction(" + arg1 + "," + arg2 + ")");
>
> That is a pain in the ass, so I made a function, bound to F5, that
> automatically inserts that trace statement for whichever function the cursor
> is currently within. Each of those functions probably took me 10-15 minutes
> to add and immediately incorporate into my work.
>
> I totally agree with Hank, though, that it's not for everyone, but, if you
> are interested enough to read books on how to become a better programmer, you
> might find that it's worth it. I think the same goes for using a shell and
> Linux, for that matter.
>
> -austin
>
> On Wed Jan 03 09:19 , hank williams wrote:
> > On 1/3/07, jtgxbass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >Hank,
> > >
> > >My summarized response is, that for most people, this does not make sense
> > >> primarily because so much work has gone into specialized editors that
> > >really
> > >> fit a *given language* like a glove. Moreover, Most people have decided
> > >that
> > >> they like GUI and don't like command line only.
> > >
> > >
> > >The problem with your "responses" is that you make soo many assumptions.
> > >You say things like "most people". How can you be soo sure?
> > >
> >
> > Ok, well if you dont agree that most people are using gui editors, thats
> > fine. It seems obvious to me from all the work I do and all the lists I am
> > on, but If you dont agree then so be it. I wont try to convince you.
> >
> >
> > With all the people worldwide I program with on various closed and open
> > >source projects, "most" use cmd line based tools. But I am not saying that
> > >is a true reflection, how could I possibly know.
> > >
> > >Back to the topic...
> > >What makes you think editors like vim, emacs are not as good as
> > >specialized editors? Forget GUI vs cmd line, personally I find these
> > >specialized editors a pain to use mainly because I have to remember the key
> > >bindings specific to each one when I launch and use it. I code in AS, C/C++
> > >and Java mainly. If I use separate editors for each of these (and on the
> > >different platforms I work on too - Linux, Mac, PC, I /could/ end up having
> > >to learn and switch between 6 different editors. Any perceived benefits of
> > >any of these "specialized" editors soon disappears IMHO.
> > >
> >
> > I understand that this is your preference. Nothing wrong with that. But I
> > just dont believe more people use emacs or vim than eclipse for editing
> > java. This is based on mailing lists, quantity of books on the subject, etc.
> > But if you want to argue that more people or an equivalent number of people
> > use emacs & vim for java, then it will just have to be your opinion vs mine.
> >
> > For me, I have found an editor (vim) that does gives me all the features I
> > >expect from a code editor and these features work with all the languages I
> > >code in. I can code on any platform and not have to learn/switch between
> > >various key-bindings. I have code completion, syntax highlighting, code
> > >folding, code templates among other great things. I dont want integrated
> > >help, wizards or the like.
> > >
> >
> > I suspect you are a far better programmer than me. I need lots of help and
> > wizards and the like.
> >
> >
> > And I'm sorry but your assertion that a "specialized" editor could fit a
> > >language like a glove, perhaps you could explain to me how any one language
> > >is soo different to another. Of course there are arcane examples, but most
> > >languages are very similar (Java-AS3 for example).
> > >
> >
> > An AS3 editor cannot find my java errors and make java code suggestions, and
> > complete my java functions. The converse would of course also be true. My
> > AS3 editor also cannot refactor my java code. But I understand that you dont
> > need these things. I, of course do. And as I have said several times in this
> > thread with no sarcasm meant at all, I am sure you are a far better
> > programmer than I am with a far better memory, and that is why you dont need
> > any help. My belief is that most people need such help, which is why eclipse
> > and visual studio are so popular. I know your argument is that they are not
> > so popular compared to emacs and vim, and on that point we will obviously
> > have to disagree.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Hank
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > osflash mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
>
>
> --
> Austin Haas
> Pet Tomato, Inc.
> http://pettomato.com
>
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> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
>
--
Jim Kremens
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