Hi J-S, On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay <[email protected]> wrote: > But are people who go to the OSG site necessarily people who use OSG? That's > the extrapolation I was referring to.
I would have thought there would be a reasonable correlation between visitors to openscenegraph.org and users. For existing users there is obviously a very good correlation. For the rest of the visitors it's case of either accidentally coming across the OSG, in which I would more normal spread of OS/browser usage, or vistors that are genuinely looking at the OSG as possible candidate for use, for this set of visitors the conversion from evaluator to final users I would expect on less conversions of Windows users than users of other OS's given allure of D3D under Windows and the OSG's lack of support for it. >> Actually I think you're being a little tetchy. How is pointing >> aspects browser stats extremist? > > I wasn't referring to browser stats when saying you're extremist, but more > to your general comments on Windows, and how (most) people who use Windows > are buying into MS and being blinded by their PR, and so on. In the past few > weeks I had the impression that you were making some blanket statements, not > necessarily including the Windows users on this list (I didn't feel directly > pointed out, at least) but most of the Windows users. My guess is that the Windows users/developers in the OSG community are likely to be less MS centric than the the majority of Windows developers/end users/purchasers. So if I do sweep a broad brush about being overly swayed by MS PR, it's the later category that I feel is where the problem lies. The problem lies in that non MS solutions don't get a fair shout even if they are as good or better solutions. Clients of OSG app developers asking for a D3D port is a case where less tech savy end users are being swayed by the MS PR machine. Seeing signs of movement away from previously entrenched MS products is encouraging, as it gives more oxygen to the argument that solutions like OpenGL are a positive attribute, for those struggling to convince end users about it's value can point to MS not necessarily producing the best technology, and that open solutions are viable and making headway. As a non Windows users I'm pretty aware of lots of places where lack of standards and portability restricts computing life unnecessary, it's not technical issues, it's issues of monopoly and a strangle hold over software and hardware vendors. If you are a Windows users then you'll probably be less aware of places where your computing life might otherwise be impinged upon as your in the MS blessed eco-system. > It's a tool for a job, making it into a war is useless. I'm not trying to make war. I'm try to give perspective on what seems to be happening in the OSG community and what that might mean more widely. > OK, so you're making the assumption that if 60% of visitors on the site are > using Windows, but only 25% use IE, then people seem to not be buying into > MS's PR anymore? I would say that the advances of Open Source software (in > terms of visibility, quality, etc.) have had a large hand in that. And I > agree, being in the same boat myself (Windows user but open source software > user wherever I can). There has been in the past a noticeable entrenchment of the view that MS products are best, or that no alternative exists. I see it particularly in on tech communities, such as family and non tech friends where IE == internet, Word == word processor, rather than these just being products. The idea that their are alternatives to IE, let along Windows takes a bit of time to get over. Even in non tech circles we see people claiming the demise of OpenGL, and that gaming == Direct3D, both of which are demonstrably wrong, and it's MS's PR machine that has successfully engineering this. > So that's good news right? It is indeed good news, it's one of key points of me posting the stats. To highlight that fact that for our community at least things aren't as MS centric as they were previously. >> Given the context for Gordon Tomlison's recent email about Direct3D an >> assertions that some clients ask for Direct3D simply because they >> think it's better, I think it's important to point out stats, as it's >> one of the tools that we have available. Times have certainly changed >> dramatically in the browser market, extrapolating this to a suggestion >> that other parts of the software eco-system might be also ripe for >> change as well I don't think is too unreasonable. > > I agree. And BTW I've been silent about your list of concrete actions, but > I'll help there as much as I can of course. Just because I'm a Windows user > doesn't make me self-centered :-) Having a viable choice is a good thing, having competitors to IE and even Windows starting to get on to a more level footing will mean that you'll have the choice of which platforms suits you best, and MS will be forced to start competing with better products rather than abusing it's monopoly position (like it's done so far with OpenGL/D3D). Robert. _______________________________________________ osg-users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
