So interesting, the very strong connection Harrison and Jenifer sketch
between [goal seeking] and [control].
I view [goal seeking] and [control] as related and different.
I can have a goal without attempting to control any one but myself, per
my previous example: trend following.
Attempts at "control" (a vague term indeed) are exactly how some free
agents choose to self-organize themselves, in a space that is truly
free. Not all of them, to be sure, yet some of them.
Is it controlling....?......to try to influence people away from
addressing their need for perceived control? Hmmm...
Energetically opposing a strong trend....
...usually results in some difficult learning.
On 10/30/13 6:50 AM, Jenifer Toksvig wrote:
Re: [OSList] The OST Game Hey Daniel,
>> ... control of one's self / discipline <<
The conversation might be getting skewed, as is so easily the case in
threaded discussions like this. (And I had forgotten how much I love
them!)
Harrison said: >> Goal seeking systems are purely a figment of our
imagination created in a desperate attempt to satisfy our unending
(and futile) need for control. <<
You said: >> Yes, and not every goal seeker is a control freak. Some
of us are quite the opposite... there is goal-seeking without a
controlling spirit. <<
And I say: self-discipline is a form of control. It's goal-seeking. I
didn't say it was good or bad :-) but just that it is. We try to
control things, including ourselves, in an existence that responds
unpredictably. Admittedly, the more information mankind figures out
about the world, the more we are able to control things. (I'm not sure
I entirely like that, to be honest.)
Still, in this day and age, I can try to exert self-control over my
health, and achieve the goal of -- what, a long life? A healthy life?
And all kinds of little goals in between. Still, life can screw with me.
I said: >> I don't think it's possible to be goal-oriented and try to
exert some kind of control over the process, unless your goal is... to
have no goal. <<
Very badly worded, but I meant that I don't think it's a rule in life
that you can use control and therefore achieve goals. It happens, but
I'm pretty sure it's not a rule.
I also agree that it's human nature to try anyway. And in many ways
foolish not to try. The effects of trying is much of the stuff that
"whatever happens" is made of.
Me: >> ... being prepared to be surprised is a goal. A sort of
wonderfully ridiculous one.
You: >> Yes, and the statement itself is: directive. Wait, whats that
doing in OST? <<
Being beautifully, and somewhat amusingly, observational. Like the
rest of OST.
J x
*Jenifer Toksvig
*www.acompletelossforwords.com
*The Copenhagen Interpretation
*www.thecopenhageninterpretation.co.uk
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