In the Genuine Contact community we use the Five to fold decision making process, which seems a little similar to the consensus by veto process. What differs is the talking rounds asking clarifying questions and voicing opinions before moving to the decision. If the sponsors of the proposal hear many opposing voices they can withdraw their proposal or change it before moving to voting. The voting is done with your hand showing with your fingers the energy you have for the proposal. It is also possible to fold and by that stop the proposal if you feel that it will harm the organization deeply. We have experienced a few folds and often it is only one person who sees the things that others can´t see but afterwards we have found that those folds were actually supporting the organization, even if they at the time they were made, caused frustration for the sponsors.
I don´t see why blocking from a small number should be less valued than blocking from a large number, because that already takes us back to the majority voting. One person can have the important knowledge that is missing from the rest of the group, even in large groups. But then I also have a lot of prejudices about consensus decisions :), this technique has been used for a long time here in Sweden and it has meant that you are supposed to adjust to the people who “knows best” because otherwise we will never be able to get things done or leave the meeting room to go home. When I read about the Occupy DC Facilitation Committee what I see is that they used a method they thought would be in line with their beliefs but then created ways around that method because they wanted it their way. Which leads back to the work on Argyris and Schön on espoused theory and theory in use. We say and also think we do things in a certain way but very often, without us being aware of it, we do in another way that protects ourselves more. Blessings Eiwor Från: OSList [mailto:[email protected]] För Kári Gunnarsson via OSList Skickat: den 16 oktober 2014 17:04 Till: Lucas Cioffi; World wide Open Space Technology email list Ämne: Re: [OSList] Swarmwise; how to organise community like a Wave Riding Pirate >From the book: "... you can say that everybody has the power of veto for >decisions [...] However, it only works well for smaller subgroups (30 or less people). ..." The book also talks a lot about is the consensus circle THE MAGIC OF THE CONSENSUS CIRCLE One good mechanism for arriving at a decision in a (defined) group is called a consensus circle. ... p. 165 On 16 October 2014 13:07, Lucas Cioffi via OSList <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Hello Thomas, "Consensus by veto" means anything that is not vetoed is treated as consensus. The occupy movement made decisions this way. People could give several hand signals to indicate their sentiment when someone else was talking without having to talk over them. Here's a list on Wikipedia of Occupy movement's and signals <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement_hand_signals> . You'll see a hand signal for "hard block" which means the listener is hearing something morally objectionable (i.e. they are vetoing it). By defining consensus as "Not morally objectionable" (i.e. not vetoed) the Occupy Movement was able to approve more member actions/initiatives than if they went with "universally agreed upon" as their definition of consensus, because their members were eclectic and unlikely to agree 100% on everything. I witnessed that OccupyDC's Facilitation Committee would change the operational definition of consensus as the months went by so that even 1 or 2 vetoes were still seen as consensus when they wanted to have fewer roadblocks from their own members. So the veto number is variable as a facilitation technique. -- Lucas Cioffi Co-Founder, QiqoChat.com <http://qiqochat.com/> Charlottesville, VA 917-528-1831 <tel:917-528-1831> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Thomas Perret via OSList <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Thanks John, great. I read your notes and this one raised a question: "for necessary decisions (e.g. directing group resources), 'consensus' by veto is better than democratic decision-making by majority vote" What do you/the book mean by "consensus by veto" here? Thomas On Oct 16, 2014, at 3:51 AM, John Baxter via OSList <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Hello Wave Riders I've just finished reading Swarmwise, the tactical manual for organising community like a Pirate (i.e. Sweden's Pirate Party). Open Space methods are threaded through it, both overtly and implicitly. I thought it was an excellent vindication of the hunch that Open Space can be applied in very specific ways to processes much bigger than single events. I did have an initial reaction to how strong the influence of the individual leader-champion is. But I came to the conclusion that sort of leadership fits the given objectives, and is no different than the sponsor setting the topic in OST. So a heads up, you may have the same averse reaction to ego-centric language that I did... but please forgive it in order to see the wisdom within. Recommended reading for all Wave Riders: Swarmwise <http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/> . Also if of interest, my notes <http://www.evernote.com/shard/s133/sh/265720ee-aa87-4377-9508-d191d48a966a/3ad0177a6c8434e45420dba77f54ff61> (not a permalink) Cheers John Baxter CoCreate Adelaide Facilitator, Director of Realise consultancy <http://cocreateadl.com/localgov%E2%80%8B> CoCreateADL.com | <http://www.jsbaxter.com.au/> jsbaxter.com.au 0405 447 829 | @ <http://twitter.com/jsbaxter_> jsbaxter_ _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list To post send emails to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list To post send emails to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list To post send emails to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org -- Kári Gunnarsson markþjálfi [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://www.facebook.com/heimsmynd (+354) 864 5189
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