The conversation today reminds me of some things Richard Moss talks about. This is from his book Words That Shine Both Ways:
What Unconditional Love looks like to me for our age and our time is not finding a belief or process that will make you happy, but having the strength and courage to stay present for whatever you experience not as a victim not righteous in it, not as an evangelist for some idea, some technique, some faith, but just to stay present. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: Doersam, Laurel <laurel.doer...@caphealth.org> To: <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:07 PM Subject: Re: AW: Central Asia > Hmmmm. Interesting. By using the term personal, I wasn't meaning to infer > that the experience couldn't be in a group. It actually didn't occur to me > that some folks might think that all valid spiritual experience would be > solo. Many of my most profound spiritual experiences have been in > community, for this is when I've most clearly felt my connection to the > oneness. > > It struck me as ironic there might be a distrust of group in spiritual > circles (for doesn't a circle infer group-ness?). > Our experiences on this planet are entirely human . . . we have no other > filter by which to interpret our reality. . . and we are such social beings > . . . I agree that missing this connection, this experience of group-ness, > this synergy, would be a terrible loss. (And yet, I also don't want to > diminish the value of alone-ness for both personal, spiritual and > relationship growth.) > > Thanks, Kenoli, for inspiring more thought for me. > > And, thanks, Meg, for tying it back to Wilbur's four quadrants - that made > sense to me. Hmmm, the shadow side - that opens up another can o' worms. > Presuming that groups/communities also have shadow sides (which I've > certainly experienced, so I think they do), then maybe it is the lurking > shadow that causes distrust of the group experience? > > Laurel. > -----Original Message----- > From: kenoli Oleari [mailto:ken...@igc.org] > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:49 PM > To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > Subject: Re: AW: Central Asia > > > Laurel -- > > This interests me. I think there are two important elements here: 1) > being connected with our own experience -- which is how I think we > tune into the oneness that we are all part of -- and 2) recognizing > (or realizing) our connection with each other and celebrating that -- > a kind of human realization of that oneness. I think we have to do > our own work to accomplish the first and to fully enter into the > second. I also think that certain qualities of group experience can > enhance personal and spiritual growth. There is not a linear > relationship here. > > I have always been concerned with what I see as an unnecessary and > frustrating division between people with a basically "spiritual" > orientation and people with a community or "group" orientation. > Wilbur has talked a lot about the distinctions that arise out of a > Spiral Dynamic interpretation of various states of development. I am > concerned sometimes that some of his work, especially focus on the > "mean green" furthers this distinction. Group connections and > process have been a critical part of my personal and spiritual > development, along with my person work. I sense a distrust of > "group" in many spiritual circles. If feels like an important element > of human experience is lost when this is missed. > > I think "group" can be a spiritual experience. > > Kenoli > > >Julie wrote: > > > >"I think we experience truth when we recognize our connection with each > >other, and become glad. Perhaps healing is what happens in the wake of > >recognizing the truth of our connection with each other. Maybe that is the > >only truth that matters." > > > > > >Thanks, Julie, for jumping in. Your comment grabbed me by the heart and > >guts - and, if it is "true", then in fact, there is only one truth which > >encompasses the ALL in which we participate. And that truth, that all is > >one, can't be known or understood through the intellect, but only through > >personal mystical or intuitive experience. (Here I go with the Ken > >Wilburisms ...) This seems to tie in with the Gaia consciousness discussion > >that has been a parallel thread over the last week or two - Harrison and > >Typhoid Mary notwithstanding!! > > > >Great conversation! Thanks, all (and thanks, ALL) > > > >Laurel. > > > >* > >* > >========================================================== > >osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > >------------------------------ > >To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > >view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > >Visit: > > > >http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > -- > Kenoli Oleari, Horizons of Change, http://www.horizonsofchange.com > 1801 Fairview Street, Berkeley, CA 94703 Voice Phone: 510-601-8217, > Fax: 510-595-8369, Email: ken...@igc.org (or click on: > mailto://ken...@igc.org) > > * > * > ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > Visit: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > * > * > ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > Visit: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
