I think we get into a lot of trouble when we start to call things that humans make up "natural." The Law and the Principles are not natural; they are human constructs. They may have been created to mimic "natural" emergent systems of self-organizing, but they are not natural. My two cents worth.
John On Sep 30, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Esther Matte wrote: > Interesting thread! > > From my perspective, the law and principles are natural. However, they need > to be mentioned to create the container for people to get reacquainted with > that very deep nature that has been covered, constrained, forgotten after > many, many layers of rules, habits and fears were created in modern society. > When you don't mention the law and principles, what you get is just a huge > brainstorm session without any individual or collective responsibility. > > That's my two cents... and I'm looking forward to the Oct. 14 conversation > about Agile. > > Cheers! > > > Esther Matte > Discover - Engage - Accomplish > Nurturing Life in Organizations > 450-955-1693 > www.esthermatte.com > > Le 2013-09-30 à 13:31, Daniel Mezick a écrit : > >> I request help and guidance. Will you help me understand the rule of the >> Open Space meeting format? >> >> If the 1 law & the 4/5 principles are natural and self-evident, I am >> confused about the need to mention them whatsoever. >> >> If the 1 law and the 4/5 principles are not natural and not self-evident, I >> am confused about how mentioning them is optional. >> >> The 1 "law" (quotes) and "4/5 principles" (quotes again) are either >> self-evident, or they are not. I wonder which is the reality. >> >> See also: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law >> http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights >> >> >> >> >> >> On 9/30/13 8:05 AM, Harrison Owen wrote: >>> Dan – I have to agree with Lisa. As said multiple times before, the 5 >>> principles and the Law are descriptive and not prescriptive. Or at least >>> that is the way they popped into my head: simple observations of what was >>> transpiring, as opposed to directions concerning what should be taking >>> place. I have always said “Principles” and “Law” with a smile, >>> because if you really think about it, they are neither (principle or law). >>> More like, “funny things that happen on the way to the future.” There is an >>> essential humor, sense of fun in Open Space – and if we ever lose it, we >>> begin to take things much too seriously L I call it High Play. >>> >>> Harrison >>> >>> Harrison Owen >>> 7808 River Falls Dr. >>> Potomac, MD 20854 >>> USA >>> >>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer) >>> Camden, Maine 04843 >>> >>> Phone 301-365-2093 >>> (summer) 207-763-3261 >>> >>> www.openspaceworld.com >>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website) >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST >>> Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >>> >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lisa Heft >>> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:22 AM >>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list >>> Subject: [OSList] (was) Open Space in schools - now: OST boundaries? >>> constraints? >>> >>> Dan - I have taken the liberty of adjusting the title of this topic to more >>> closely fit the changed content. >>> >>> And: I look forward to hearing how others respond… >>> >>> 1/ I see the Law and Principles and *invitations* not as constraints. >>> >>> 2/ And not 'required' as in - some of us do not use the 5th Principle at >>> all. However, the saying, inviting and simple explanation of these >>> invitations help to create the structure (as there is a structure, just not >>> the structure that a lot of people have experienced in meetings) / to >>> create the container. What I mean by that is that I have observed that to >>> not offer the invitation of the principles and law (even in a group of >>> people who completely know and do >>> Open Space) is not inviting presence and possibility in the >>> same way. So different dynamics then occur. >>> >>> And in saying that offering these invitations and explaining this process >>> help to create the container, I mean a living, breathing, nutrient-rich >>> container, perhaps similar to some containers like cellular walls, a bird's >>> nest, a lake, a poem, or a wisp of vapor… which have some form within which >>> there is flow. >>> >>> 3/ I notice that some super-good OST facilitators can use more words to >>> explain things, and some use less. And the experience can be amazing. In my >>> observation, it is not the amount of words, it is the complete true >>> understanding of inviting Opening Circle and agenda co-creation (which >>> include a brief explanation of principles and law and process), and getting >>> / staying out of the way so the participants can do their own work, see >>> their own patterns, feel >>> their own co-leadership, and so on. >>> >>> What do others think? >>> >>> Lisa >>> >>> On Sep 29, 2013, at 10:53 PM, Daniel Mezick <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Lisa says: >>> "... >>> The other thing is that for any kind of facilitation, I would not name >>> boundaries or constraints. It sets peoples' minds in the framework of >>> boundaries and constraints - rather than opportunities and possibilities. >>> Like 'think outside the box' - you are still thinking…of the box! when / >>> because someone says that. " >>> >>> Dan says: >>> I notice that: >>> 1/ the 1 Law and 5 Principles of OST are constraints-in-fact. Are they not? >>> 2/ we are required to describe these as OST Facilitators; at least, >>> according to the OST Guide. Right? >>> 3/ the general idea for the Facilitator is, "the less said the better". No? >>> >>> I think OST is a most wonderful game. >>> http://newtechusa.net/agile/how-games-deliver-happiness-learning/ >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSList mailing list >>> To post send emails to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> >> -- >> Daniel Mezick, President >> New Technology Solutions Inc. >> (203) 915 7248 (cell) >> Bio. Blog. Twitter. >> Examine my new book: The Culture Game : Tools for the Agile Manager. >> Explore Agile Team Training and Coaching. >> Explore the Agile Boston Community. >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
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