On Mon, January 26, 2009 2:00 pm, Stefano Mori wrote: > What y'all are basically trying to say:
<snip> > - it would only be appropriate if in 4 years time we see evidence of > actions that can back up an apology That's what *I'm* saying. > Can you see a pattern? Well, you understand you're debating this issue with multiple people, each with a different perspective, so trying to derive a pattern from disparate arguments may in fact be futile. > > I can't. But wait... > > It is almost as if y'all are trying to say that you want that Obama > should only ever apologize if and only if the apology was genuine and > truly sincere. Well gosh... yeah. > And seeing as no American group seems to feel any > genuine remorse for America's actions over the past 8 years, with all > the bombing and invading and all, then an apology is totally out of > the question. Absolutely not, and I don't think anyone said that. Are the some groups who feel no remorse? Of course. Do *no* groups feel remorse? That's silly and you know it. > and Roger you're > imagining possible worse scenarios to come. No, I'm imagining that until history has closed the book on that chapter it's premature to offer anything but hope for change. Will Obama do any better than Bush? I'd love to think so. But one thing we've often seen - and this isn't an American phenomenon - is that things change once you get into office. Whether they learn details they weren't privy to prior to taking office, whether there are previously-unimagined pressures and influences, or whether the situation changes, it's premature to apologize for something that's ongoing and whose resolution is hardly guaranteed. For instance: - the war - not over - Gitmo - still open - torture - no one knows > > So America, you have a shiny new president, who talks of hope. And as > a people you talk about it being time to lead again--as opposed to > whatever y'all thought you were doing the last 8 years (knitting, I > suppose)--and as a nation you're going to lead us all towards freedom > and prosperity and away from terrorism and poverty. And you're going > to do all that, as a great nation, a nation made of a people who can't > even feel remorse. Bullshit. No one said there's no remorse except you. And I believe Obama has sincerely expressed remorse for the course this country has taken over the past decade. Whether he ought to apologize, given how new he is to the office and how much a work-in-progress these issues are, is I believe completely premature. You can twist that all you want. -R _______________________________________________ OSX-Nutters mailing list | [email protected] http://lists.tit-wank.com/mailman/listinfo/osx-nutters List hosted at http://cat5.org/
