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On this note I often wonder if all these interventions are breeding a
weaker race... if you lookat the fact that the c/s that are
actually needed and the babies who do not die from starvation or
malnutrition as they used to. Are we not more dependant on these
interventions as they are why we actually exist anyway. So it goes
to figure that some people will need c/s and some will need to bottle feed
as they probably would have beent he ones who dies - the survival of the
fittest has gone and so if we are going to stop this natural "culling" for
want of a better word, then does that not make us a weaker race?
I hope that makes sence, not saying that all c/s are needed or all
women who breastfeed physically need to but realistically some will and
maybe this will increase as we become more dependant on
interventions.
just my thoughs for the evening.
Rhonda
-------Original Message-------
Date: Thursday, 22
August 2002 08:01:41 PM
Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] too hard to breastfeed
Yeah, I have an opinion on everything too, it's good I
think. I think with
breastfeeding we have to remember that a small but
significant number of
women do have real trouble with breastfeeding.
And this is despite the fact
that it is what our bodies are designed to
do. Some of our bodies just are a
little less than perfect. This is why
there existed wet-nurses before the
advent of formula. Now I do know
that some use of wet nurses was fashion
dictated as is some use of
formula, but some has also always been real need.
I don't think this
means we have to blithely dispense formula from the
nursery, but I do
think we have to be compassionate and thinking to our mums
and
babies.
Some mothers I have met when I was a doula in the USA, who
have had trouble
with breastfeeding have come from families who had 3
or 4 generations of
women with such trouble, almost always apparent
poor supply or a poor latch
followed by engorgement and then mastitis.
It is really hard to get through
possible solutions when the woman has
heard this tale of great grandmother
dieing from mastitis. Almost
always in such families a generational history
of breast cancer at a
relatively young age. Blame and shame are always such
frequent visitors
in such situations. Especially when you fell you are
giving the very
best of advice and you really want what is best for the mum
and baby.
Sometimes we have to admit we just don't know why it isn't working
and
then you see mum and baby all cuddled up enjoying yes, a bottle and
you
can understand and it is ok.
I have to admit that I was
determined to succeed at breastfeeding because I
thought I knew what my
mother thought of women who didn't, I just hope they
didn't know. Being
a hospital midwife who had trained in the 30's, army
nurse then
returned to country hospital nursing and midwifery in the 1950's
she
didn't have a lot of time for the big changes she saw: drugs in
labour
and bottlefeeding. So, I wasn't about to disappoint her. I dare
say if she
had been an avid bottle feeder I may have thought other
wise. I think family
history/rules/culture/body type has a lot to do
with how we birth, feed, and
nurture. I feel a bit of a dill writing
that, it seems so obvious to be
trite. Anyway it's done. Will go now.
marilyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent:
Wednesday, August 21, 2002 11:53 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] too hard
to breastfeed
> Yep, I'm crap at breast feeding. Not real
good at birthing, either. But
I did
> grow four good looking
kids, and once I got going, I laboured fairly well.
> There are many
reasons why women don't breast-feed. My last one was
breast-fed
>
with a supply-line for 4 months. Then I was the only one to give her
a
bottle.
> Result a child who refused to hold her own bottle and
required night feeds
> untill over two; just like many breast-fed
kids. Maureen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Robin Moon
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:01
PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] too hard to brestfeed
>
>
>
Michelle,
>
> I've known thousands of women over the years
that have agonised in the
same
> way you did and received the
same sort of treatment. I've always thought
> that as a midwife (
particulary in private health) that the best thing I
> could do for
them is to simply smooth their way, not FIX everything.
>
>
Some things in life we're crap at, and some we're great at, and more
often
> than not, we dont get to choose what they are. Some women
are great at
> growing healthy term babies, some are crap; some are
great at labouring
and
> some are crap; some are great at
breastfeeding and some are crap; and some
> are great at mothering
and some are crap. The thing is, it's a rare person
> that is
brilliant at everything, and I for one, can pinpoint great
holes
in
> my talents at some of the above list. Like most things
in life, we're
> just required to make the best of any given
situation and hopefully,
> gracefully accept the rest. So just do
the best you can and regardless of
> milk or no milk, unhelpful
comments or no, the most important thing to
> remember is that a
loving, intimate relationship with our loved ones is
the
> most
important gift we can give them. However we do it.
>
>
*wanders away to refill glass of Merlot*
>
>
Robin.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
MICHELLE WHITE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:21 PM
> Subject: FW:
[ozmidwifery] too hard to brestfeed
>
>
> >
>
> I'd like to add my thoughts to this debate..
> > I agree
with you that I think it's incredibly unfair to dismiss
women
who
> > choose
> > to bottle-feed as being
selfish....
> > It's a tough decision to make and I doubt any
women who has desperately
> yearned
> > for their child,
would ever make that decision lightly.
> > Before I had my little
girl I decided that I would breastfeed because we
> all
> >
know that it's the best thing you can do for your baby.
> > I
also thought it would be the most natural thing in the world.
> >
However, after a week of extreme pain and anguish I decided to put
my
> child on
> > formula because I could not get her to
attach properly, she wasn't
getting
> > enough milk, she was
sick and jaundiced, I was a physical and emotional
> wreck
>
> and faced leaving hospital without my little girl being able to
feed
> properly.
> > It should have been the happiest time
of my life, but I was totally
> miserable.
> > My baby
looked miserable and my husband was distraught because we both
>
were
> > suffering.
> > It was a tough decision to make,
I was treated like dirt by the nurses
in
> the
> >
hospital when I decided to switch to formula and I was offered no
advice
> or
> > assistance on how to bottle-feed. Basically
I was told that if I formula
> fed, I
> > was on my own,
which made me furious.
> > However I did switch to bottle-feeding
and for ME I think it was the
best
> thing
> > I
could've done. I went from hating feed-times and feeling like a
total
> failure
> > to being able to enjoy having my baby
in my arms watching her feed.
> > So, yes, breast is best. But
please Megan, don't assume that someone is
> any less
> > a
caring, 'real' mother if their circumstances mean they'd rather
>
bottle-feed.
> >
> > Michelle.
> > Perth
w.a.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
owner-ozmidwifery
> > Sent: Wednesday, 21 August 2002 2:09
PM
> > To: ozmidwifery
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
too hard to brestfeed
> >
> >
> > In a message
dated 8/21/02 9:37:24 AM W. Australia Standard Time, Megan
> >
writes:
> >
> >
> > > I wonder how many of
these parents that find breastfeeding too tiring,
> time
>
> > consuming, etc had oodles of energy to go out to nightclubs to
all
> hours.
> > > Granted you have all Sunday to
recover. There is so much energy for
> doing
> > >
things that only benefit ones selfish needs(my opinion), if
society
> cared
> > > as
> > > much about
birthing and nurturing as it does about football.
> >
Megan
> >
> > I have had three children.
>
>
> > The first was formula fed from about 2 weeks of
age.
> >
> > I would have dearly loved to breastfeed my
second, but he died shortly
> after
> > birth, and so I
went through the physically and emotionally painful
>
process
> > of letting my milk dry up.
> >
> >
My third baby (premature) was breastfed until 10 months of age.
>
>
> > In the case of babies 1 and 3 the decisions that I made,
were not made
out
> of
> > selfishness - far from it.
How to feed you baby for many (most?) is a
> very
> >
emotive one, and bound up in all sorts of history and background, but
I
> would
> > suggest that very few women make decisions
about feeding their baby
> lightly.
> > Even if they make a
decision about feeding - for what someone might
> consider
>
> a "selfish" reason - who are we to judge?
> >
> > I
know what you are trying to say, and I do agree that the whole
issue
of
> > parenting and having children does not seem to
have a high priority in
> this
> > high-tech consumer led
world, and certainly the case of the Nigerian
women
> is
>
> awful (and not an isolated incident according to a report in
Marie
Claire
> > last year).
> >
> > Debbie
Slater
> > Perth, WA
> >
> > --
> >
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au>
to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
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