PS -Thankyou for your lovely feedback Cheryl Pinky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheryl LHK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
> And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. > > Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and astounds > me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some > common-sense mothering with your advice. > > They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow > through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies over > the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I think > the last one ended up FTP and C/S. > > Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of > breast-feeding soon?? > > Cheryl > > > > > >From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 > > > >BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I > >Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called > >"Joined at The Hip" -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for > >babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame approach > >(or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. > > > >The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech > >births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that I > >havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. > >Pinky > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jaqueline Marwick > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM > > Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > I must agree with Pinky as well > > And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT. > >Now they call it "controlled crying" so it sounds a bit less cruel. This is > >in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let > >their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they sleep > >very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no > >difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them > >anyway. Sad. > > I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, and > >there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA that > >promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut > >the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night > >(in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad. > > And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the > >media, I always hear them talking on the radio as "specialists" or "experts > >in sleep methods", "experts in parenting" > > And they do have an audience! > > May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship are > >these people creating by establishing that pattern? > > Jackie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay > > Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re 25 > >year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not at > >all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic > >expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill > >slide. > > > > I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this > >stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being > >diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling with > >mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to learn to slow > >up somehow and reach out to each other more. It seems prescriptions (which > >I am not knocking either, as they are a definite lifeline, just the irony > >that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope with things that > >should be helped by support - yet the community for honoring mothering isnt > >really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or could it be these new > >mums are part of a generation who missed out on nurturing themselves? > > > > There is a saying - "happiness is not in things it is in us" but > >perhaps it really isnt "in us" if we are stressed from birth and as infants > >-and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to work/life stress. > >There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol can "shrink"/ > >alter parts of the brain - at any age (I am just waiting for a new desk to > >arrive so all my stuff is inaccessible but had some interesting notes from > >a neuro psychologist at Monash on this). So if women were already living > >under stress, then they would be close to the 'edge' and a baby could be > >the final 'straw' . > > > > I am not sure how much of this stress is due to perception and > >expectations - surely mothers/ people in general havent always been so > >unhappy. > > > > Pinky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Marilyn Kleidon > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:18 AM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > I totally agree with both Darren and Pinky as I am sure most > >everyone on the list does. However if you go to the Forums on that website, > >you see a whole other experience. It seems many new mothers have a very > >unrealistic expectation about being a mother, and not much has changed in > >30 years of the expectations of many men. Of course these expectations are > >reinforced by family and friends. > > > > The sad thing that seems to be hitting me over the head as I work > >on the postnatal ward is that I think many women are latently (is that the > >right word) depressed: I mean just marginally below the surface of true > >clinical depression. And so it doesn't take much to tip them over the edge > >of not coping. They are not happy, they are barely coping with life, in > >short they are doing it tough. Maybe I am over reacting, I hope so. And I > >don't think a mental health referral would help any more than a sleep baby > >sleep program. However I do think these baby sleep marketeers are taking > >advantage of a climate of unhappiness. > > > > marilyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Darren Sunn > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:21 PM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > I agree with Pinky, > > > > Sleep managment masqurades as many forms (controlled crying etc.) > > There exits undue pressure not only from your own family but from > >relatives and friends to implement some form of sleep modification. > >Especially when bith of you have had no sleep for days , your moody and > >feeling distressed. > > Our beautiful child is 12 months now and he recently went through > >a 2 week period of waking every hour. Needless to say we spent a lot of > >time supporting each other and I explained to my work collegues that i > >wasn't going to be much use..(ha ha). > > That was only a few weeks back and now he is sleeping with only > >one or 2 wakes a night.(ps he does sleep with us also). > > He did have his molars comming through and I definately believe > >they effected his sleeping patterns. > > > > Babies and their families need support and reassurance, not > >systems of behaviour modification. > > > > Darren > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Pinky McKay > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:06 AM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > YUk!!! > > Sounds cruel and a rip off to me - have you seen the Australian > >association of Infant mental health policy on controlled crying (settling > >techniques included) -I have a copy if anyone wants to email me offlist (so > >I can attach). I will try and get it onto my website soon. > > > > BTW - they recommend my books as an alternative to CC. > > > > I had a mum at my infant massage class last week - with a > >beautiful 3 month old - very upset and confused as her MCH had told her her > >baby a) should be sleeping longer (and alone - she co-sleeps) b) she > >shouldnt allow him to fall asleep in the sling and c) if he breastfeeds to > >sleep this will cause insomnia as he will wake -ALL NIGHT - seeking a > >breast.Thankfully there was a wonderfully sensible mum of a seven month old > >whose baby had just gently weaned off bedtime booby who was able to > >reinforce that the baby knows what it is ready for - without force. We > >talked about how mothers can nurture themselves/ pressures/ make life > >simpler etc -then I gave homework - a "jarmy/ cocoon day" - feedback was > >very positive about how much they struggled with pressure to be superwoman > >- and how much it really didnt matter that they left the dishes etc - it > >was all still there or not important once they did get back into things. > > > > I am sure many of these mums are just very pressured that their > >babies are not behaving "properly" - there is a lot of performance anxiety > >rather than actual exhaustion, and if exhaustion is the case - why? What is > >the mother trying to do as well as mother and bond with her baby? > >-especially when many of these bubs are less than 6 weeks old - the > >traditional lying in time. Could the mother have PND and all theblame is > >being laid on the baby? How can the mum nurture herself and could she try > >some gentle techniques to help baby sleep a bit "better" - ie massage/ > >relaxation bath/ 'topup feed' last thing before she goes to bed -without > >waking baby (breastmilk if bub is breastfed), minimising stimulation at > >bedtime - how many mums have TV on -this is a bombardmernt of new-born > >senses? Examine mums diet - ??high in salicylates/ caffeine etc which could > >make bub restless. ?Food intolerance. > > > > There are lots of simple commonsense things that should be > >passed on mother to mother without charging $500 - It really shows that not > >only birth and breastfeeding, but infant sleep management is medicalised as > >well - Im not having a go at LCs here -I just feel we can see things as > >problematic when it should all be a natural process; I feel the need for > >breastfeeding intervention is real but likely due to issues surrounding > >birth - ?? are all these things a follow-on from managed birth -are we all > >that desperate for control? - and, would surrendering at birth help mothers > >surrender to the natural forces of mothering? I believe it would. > > > > Pinky > > www.pinky-mychild.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: hplerchbacher > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:47 PM > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > Dear Wise Listers, > > > > Has anyone heard of this program called "Sleep Baby Sleep". > >One of the woman emailed someone and had quote of this superb course to > >positive routine management for $500. Please check out the website > >www.sleepbabysleep.net > > > > I told the woman and her husband to utilise local support > >instead. Is this a scam? > > > > Ping > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: > >16/06/2003 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp > > -- > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
