Hi Jeanie - thats so sad but I can relate - I got a bit "famous" in our local community in the 70s I was a La Leche Group Leader in Nz in the 70s and the dear local Mormon girls came to see me about breastfeeding. When it had the desired -for them - natural child spacing effects, they were all in deep poo at their church (a baby was expected every year) - we lived in Hamilton near a large Mormon temple. I also worked weekends in a postnatal ward while I was still breastfeeding a then 4 year old and there was a lot of birth activism going on -the same women were in LLL and Parents centres / home birth movement etc so I often heard how weird we all were- hey but the fight was worth it -things did change - from rooming in to lots of birth options.
My girls tandem nursed (born 80 and 83) - during pregnancy Larissa 'favoured' one side and said 'that is the babys booby' - as she stopped drinking from that side it produced colostrum while 'her' side continued to produced "milk" right through the pregnancy -then there was colostrum from both breasts after birth - milk in within 12 hours - 3 year old definitely helpful! It wasnt alwasy easy -there were days when I felt like a piece of meat being chewed on by two voracious puppies - At first, Larissa developed very severe middle ear infection and runny nose while I was in hospital (induction the works) and she drank some cow milk at home (allergy)although bfed when she came to visit me. Then as soon as I was home again Larissa nursed on her side when Sarah Nursed and then had Sarahs side "by herself' later. Sarah was a very chubby baby and I felt she must have got a very good dose of hind milk -I really allowed them to nurse whenever either wanted. The importnat thing for me was to eat much more -I was a much faster "burner" then and often became quite lightheaded or tired . Rick used to say when did you last eat? which was helpful -after a good protein snack I was fine again. I will add you all to my Breastfeeders file -as soon as I get my head around it I will contact you. Has anyone read teh Contented little baby book of weaning??> I havent but have seen it on shelves Thanks Pinky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeannie Minnis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > Hi Pinky, > > I tandem fed my children back in the 1970's and would be very happy to be > interviewd if it would assist your research. I lived in a small conservative > rural community and was regarded as the local sexual deviant and witch!! > Jeannie Minnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:36 PM > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > Have just been speaking to Larissa on the phone - mentioned I may need to > > interview her - her most vivid 'mammary' is having conjunctivitis when > she > > was little and me squirting breastmilk into her sticky eye! > > Pinky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Denise Hynd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:16 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby > > Sleep > > > > > > > Pinky > > > Thank you for this I it made me chuckle > > > denise > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:22 PM > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > Hi Barb, > > > > Thanks, Ive just accepted the other offers for PP -what a scream! - an > > > > interview of breastfed kids - I might do that for a natural parenting > > > > mag -will check out some of the more avant guard mainstreamers too > > (Junior > > > > magazine have asked if I would like to write for them - > > > > www.juniormagazine.co.uk -they've had some controversial/ unusual > > > > articles ) - My daughter Larissa (now almost 23 and almost a > > > psychologist) > > > > was around 51/2 when she tried to have a "booby " to help ease the > pain > > of > > > > an ear infection (she hadnt nursed for a few weeks -Sarah -then 2 was > > > still > > > > nursing as well so there was plenty of milk) . As she tried to > "nibble" > > > she > > > > looked up matter-of- factly and said "I think I've lost my sucking > > > > reflex" -that was her 'weaning'. She would be a great "expert". > > > > > > > > Now that is food for thought! > > > > > > > > Pinky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: " barbara glare & chris bright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:45 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pinky, > > > > > > > > > > I'm still breastfeeding Cassie who is 5 and a half. You could > > interview > > > > > her! She speaks quite eloquently about breastfeeding and > breastmilk. > > I > > > > > could easily set you up with a few longer term breastfeeders for > > > > interviews, > > > > > and have some great photos of toddlers breastfeeding. > > > > > > > > > > Love, Barb > > > > > ABAPoster and Calendar orders [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Neretlis, Bethany" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:08 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i > > > ceased > > > > > feeding 10 months ago. > > > > > i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any > > > > > breastfeeding articles, please leet me know. > > > > > bethany > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51 > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah - how about "Extending the Breast" -reckon they'd cop that? (Im > > > sure > > > > > there has to be an "angle" -??soft and round - squished between > > grasping > > > > > little fingers?) > > > > > > > > > > Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 > > years > > > > old > > > > > right now) willing to be interviewed? > > > > > Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT > in > > > the > > > > > recent (or distant) past. > > > > > Pinky. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Cheryl LHK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. > > > > > > > > > > > > Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs > and > > > > > astounds > > > > > > me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to > > some > > > > > > common-sense mothering with your advice. > > > > > > > > > > > > They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they > > follow > > > > > > through three different women from conception to birth; several > > > ladies > > > > > over > > > > > > the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been > sucessful. > > I > > > > > think > > > > > > the last one ended up FTP and C/S. > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of > > > > > > breast-feeding soon?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheryl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical > Parenting > > is > > > I > > > > > > >Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is > > > > called > > > > > > >"Joined at The Hip" -about Velcro babies and why carrying is > good > > > for > > > > > > >babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame > > > > > approach > > > > > > >(or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about > 3 > > > > breech > > > > > > >births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about > > episiotomies > > > > that > > > > > I > > > > > > >havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these > ones. > > > > > > >Pinky > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Jaqueline Marwick > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must agree with Pinky as well > > > > > > > And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY > > IT > > > > OUT. > > > > > > >Now they call it "controlled crying" so it sounds a bit less > cruel. > > > > This > > > > > is > > > > > > >in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told > to > > > let > > > > > > >their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so > > they > > > > > sleep > > > > > > >very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it > > makes > > > no > > > > > > >difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort > > > them > > > > > > >anyway. Sad. > > > > > > > I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their > > > forum, > > > > > and > > > > > > >there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation > in > > WA > > > > > that > > > > > > >promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we > > should > > > > cut > > > > > > >the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during > the > > > > night > > > > > > >(in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. > Sad. > > > > > > > And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room > in > > > the > > > > > > >media, I always hear them talking on the radio as "specialists" > or > > > > > "experts > > > > > > >in sleep methods", "experts in parenting" > > > > > > > And they do have an audience! > > > > > > > May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent > > > relationship > > > > > are > > > > > > >these people creating by establishing that pattern? > > > > > > > Jackie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky > > McKay > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays > > Age -re > > > > 25 > > > > > > >year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study > > > etc -not > > > > > at > > > > > > >all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic > > > > > > >expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery > > > downhill > > > > > > >slide. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have several friends at the grandmother end who are > wearing > > > this > > > > > > >stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually > > being > > > > > > >diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are > struggling > > > with > > > > > > >mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to > learn > > to > > > > > slow > > > > > > >up somehow and reach out to each other more. It seems > > prescriptions > > > > > (which > > > > > > >I am not knocking either, as they are a definite lifeline, just > the > > > > irony > > > > > > >that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope with > things > > > that > > > > > > >should be helped by support - yet the community for honoring > > > mothering > > > > > isnt > > > > > > >really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or could it be > > > these > > > > > new > > > > > > >mums are part of a generation who missed out on nurturing > > themselves? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a saying - "happiness is not in things it is in us" > > but > > > > > > >perhaps it really isnt "in us" if we are stressed from birth and > as > > > > > infants > > > > > > >-and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to work/life > > > > stress. > > > > > > >There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol can > > > "shrink"/ > > > > > > >alter parts of the brain - at any age (I am just waiting for a > new > > > desk > > > > > to > > > > > > >arrive so all my stuff is inaccessible but had some interesting > > notes > > > > > from > > > > > > >a neuro psychologist at Monash on this). So if women were already > > > > living > > > > > > >under stress, then they would be close to the 'edge' and a baby > > could > > > > be > > > > > > >the final 'straw' . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure how much of this stress is due to perception > > and > > > > > > >expectations - surely mothers/ people in general havent always > been > > > so > > > > > > >unhappy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pinky > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Marilyn Kleidon > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:18 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree with both Darren and Pinky as I am sure > most > > > > > > >everyone on the list does. However if you go to the Forums on > that > > > > > website, > > > > > > >you see a whole other experience. It seems many new mothers have > a > > > > very > > > > > > >unrealistic expectation about being a mother, and not much has > > > changed > > > > in > > > > > > >30 years of the expectations of many men. Of course these > > > expectations > > > > > are > > > > > > >reinforced by family and friends. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sad thing that seems to be hitting me over the head > as > > I > > > > work > > > > > > >on the postnatal ward is that I think many women are latently (is > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > >right word) depressed: I mean just marginally below the surface > of > > > true > > > > > > >clinical depression. And so it doesn't take much to tip them over > > the > > > > > edge > > > > > > >of not coping. They are not happy, they are barely coping with > > life, > > > in > > > > > > >short they are doing it tough. Maybe I am over reacting, I hope > so. > > > And > > > > I > > > > > > >don't think a mental health referral would help any more than a > > sleep > > > > > baby > > > > > > >sleep program. However I do think these baby sleep marketeers are > > > > taking > > > > > > >advantage of a climate of unhappiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > marilyn > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Darren Sunn > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:21 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Pinky, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sleep managment masqurades as many forms (controlled > > crying > > > > > etc.) > > > > > > > There exits undue pressure not only from your own family > > but > > > > > from > > > > > > >relatives and friends to implement some form of sleep > modification. > > > > > > >Especially when bith of you have had no sleep for days , your > moody > > > and > > > > > > >feeling distressed. > > > > > > > Our beautiful child is 12 months now and he recently > went > > > > > through > > > > > > >a 2 week period of waking every hour. Needless to say we spent a > > lot > > > of > > > > > > >time supporting each other and I explained to my work collegues > > that > > > i > > > > > > >wasn't going to be much use..(ha ha). > > > > > > > That was only a few weeks back and now he is sleeping > with > > > > only > > > > > > >one or 2 wakes a night.(ps he does sleep with us also). > > > > > > > He did have his molars comming through and I definately > > > > believe > > > > > > >they effected his sleeping patterns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Babies and their families need support and reassurance, > > not > > > > > > >systems of behaviour modification. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Pinky McKay > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:06 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YUk!!! > > > > > > > Sounds cruel and a rip off to me - have you seen the > > > > > Australian > > > > > > >association of Infant mental health policy on controlled crying > > > > (settling > > > > > > >techniques included) -I have a copy if anyone wants to email me > > > offlist > > > > > (so > > > > > > >I can attach). I will try and get it onto my website soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW - they recommend my books as an alternative to CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a mum at my infant massage class last week - > with > > a > > > > > > >beautiful 3 month old - very upset and confused as her MCH had > told > > > her > > > > > her > > > > > > >baby a) should be sleeping longer (and alone - she co-sleeps) b) > > she > > > > > > >shouldnt allow him to fall asleep in the sling and c) if he > > > breastfeeds > > > > > to > > > > > > >sleep this will cause insomnia as he will wake -ALL NIGHT - > seeking > > a > > > > > > >breast.Thankfully there was a wonderfully sensible mum of a seven > > > month > > > > > old > > > > > > >whose baby had just gently weaned off bedtime booby who was able > to > > > > > > >reinforce that the baby knows what it is ready for - without > > force. > > > We > > > > > > >talked about how mothers can nurture themselves/ pressures/ make > > life > > > > > > >simpler etc -then I gave homework - a "jarmy/ cocoon day" - > > feedback > > > > was > > > > > > >very positive about how much they struggled with pressure to be > > > > > superwoman > > > > > > >- and how much it really didnt matter that they left the dishes > > etc - > > > > it > > > > > > >was all still there or not important once they did get back into > > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure many of these mums are just very pressured > > that > > > > > their > > > > > > >babies are not behaving "properly" - there is a lot of > performance > > > > > anxiety > > > > > > >rather than actual exhaustion, and if exhaustion is the case - > why? > > > > What > > > > > is > > > > > > >the mother trying to do as well as mother and bond with her baby? > > > > > > >-especially when many of these bubs are less than 6 weeks old - > the > > > > > > >traditional lying in time. Could the mother have PND and all > > theblame > > > > is > > > > > > >being laid on the baby? How can the mum nurture herself and could > > she > > > > try > > > > > > >some gentle techniques to help baby sleep a bit "better" - ie > > > massage/ > > > > > > >relaxation bath/ 'topup feed' last thing before she goes to > > > > bed -without > > > > > > >waking baby (breastmilk if bub is breastfed), minimising > > stimulation > > > at > > > > > > >bedtime - how many mums have TV on -this is a bombardmernt of > > > new-born > > > > > > >senses? Examine mums diet - ??high in salicylates/ caffeine etc > > which > > > > > could > > > > > > >make bub restless. ?Food intolerance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of simple commonsense things that > should > > be > > > > > > >passed on mother to mother without charging $500 - It really > shows > > > that > > > > > not > > > > > > >only birth and breastfeeding, but infant sleep management is > > > > medicalised > > > > > as > > > > > > >well - Im not having a go at LCs here -I just feel we can see > > things > > > > as > > > > > > >problematic when it should all be a natural process; I feel the > > need > > > > for > > > > > > >breastfeeding intervention is real but likely due to issues > > > surrounding > > > > > > >birth - ?? are all these things a follow-on from managed > birth -are > > > we > > > > > all > > > > > > >that desperate for control? - and, would surrendering at birth > help > > > > > mothers > > > > > > >surrender to the natural forces of mothering? I believe it would. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pinky > > > > > > > www.pinky-mychild.com > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: hplerchbacher > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:47 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Wise Listers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone heard of this program called "Sleep Baby > > > > Sleep". > > > > > > >One of the woman emailed someone and had quote of this superb > > course > > > to > > > > > > >positive routine management for $500. Please check out the > website > > > > > > >www.sleepbabysleep.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I told the woman and her husband to utilise local > > > support > > > > > > >instead. Is this a scam? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ping > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > > > (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > > > > Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release > Date: > > > > > > >16/06/2003 > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. 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