Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998

[Abby and Toby]

Kirsten wrote>>As for the debate on VE's etc, just because we learn something does not mean we will all go out and perform them every 5 minutes! There are many skills taught to us that could be seen as unnecessary interventions,  why as Andrea Robertson in the Midwife Companion  ( love this book!) says,  talking unnecessarily to a woman in labour and distracting her can slow things down! Personally i would rather be confident and competent in these skills so if i have to do them i am gentle and cause as less harm and discomfort as i can to the woman. I would hate to be ignoarant and say " i don't need these interventionalist skills" and then have to perform a VE and not be able to do it carefully and gently.There are still many woman out there who request them, even if you don't think so.   Just wanted to clarify that I was not the only one that said I wasn't really into VEs. I also wanted to clarify that I didn't say that women don't request them, in fact I am sure that many women do. As they also request c-sections, epidurals, inductions and numerous other, mostly, unnecessary interventions. Does this mean then that it is right, physically, morally, ethically etc, to perform these interventions? Or is it better to aim for full education of pregnant women and their support people ( not midwives) so that they can make a fully informed choice themselves? I did "childbirth preparation" classes at a birth centre and it was more like "hospital preparation" classes. Not that all classes are like that. I am wondering how many women REALLY know their bodies, their capabilities, the necessary interventions as opposed to the not necessary etc etc. From being with alot of women just talking in everyday life, and that is heaps and heaps from conservative christians to wild tripped out hippies and ferals, one thing I have noticed heaps is that birthing women never knew that they could say no to VEs, this is discluding women that have decided to really educate themselves, usually after a traumatic experience. Nearly every woman I know or have spoken to that has birthed in a hospital or birth centre setting has had at least one VE without knowing what it is for. Quite a few have had numerous VEs from different midwives and lots have had differing opinions on how "progressed" they are. Also, quite a few women, that had VEs described them as painful, invasive, humiliating, abusive, weird, unnecessary and numerous other descriptive obscenities. They also have said they were not given a choice etc. ( If any of you are wondering, I do spend alot of time with mums that have had traumatic birth experiences, some natural occurences, but the majority caused by bad care). I wanted to ask Kirsten, when you said "I would hate to be ignoarant and say " i don't need these interventionalist skills" and then have to perform a VE and not be able to do it carefully and gently.", do you think that if you were "ignorant" and chose not to learn those interventionalist skills, that then your practice would be very different? Would you see things differently in a sense of there may be a problem, challenge etc and you would use non interventionalist skills? I really am interested, because I do believe that what we learn about birth affects our attitude towards birth. I personally don't think that women who choose to not learn interventionalist skills are ignorant. Maybe they see it differently, like they think about it differently, if a real problem did occur, then they would transfer and obstetric "professionals" could deal with that problem. I think that hospitals, interventions and all that stuff are WONDERFUL for life saving, IF, not when, it comes up. I don't believe that just because a woman asks for something then it should be given, I don't believe that is empowering to women or appropriate as a caregiver.   Love Abby- sharing my opinion, not fact.