Easy. I don't know the details of the PlayStation issue, but clearly you're not a huge fan of standards. I think standards are nice because they allow us to talk to each other. Again, HTTP made this whole thing happen in the first place, then there's TCP, IP, UDP, blah blah blah -- standards built the Internet as we know it.
The IETF is really not so different from this list -- a bunch of people getting together to make stuff work. A lot of the people doing the NAT traversal stuff aren't p2p hacker types, but there are some really knowledgeable people over there, and I'd caution against underestimating them. VoIP providers need NAT traversal at least as much as p2p folks, and they've got a lot more money to devote to the problem. These aren't PhD students. They're engineers at Cisco, Nokia, Apple, Siemens, etc etc. A lot of the stuff is really elegant. Anyway, the bottom line is working code, I fully agree. I just don't think we should waste our energy getting all riled up about whether some standards-based thing works or not. Who cares? If it doesn't work, don't use it. -Adam On 8/31/07, Lemon Obrien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ICE is used by sony-playstation, they are getting their ass kicked by > microsoft cause it's easier to connect with other people and play games with > using their stuff. > > basically, too. it is not that hard to get the global ip address of any > client (they connect to your server, you read the infor from the socket); > and it's not too hard to compare port numbers (connect to another server > with seperate ip address) to see what is happening at the firewall(s) level. > > don't be fooled by crap-ware standards written by phd students who've > never had a real programming job...think about it, if we did, we'd all use > XML in our udp to move data from one computer to another. > > I think if anybody should make standards for this, it should be us, on > this list. I know there are other developrs on this list, some famous, > who've done it before and know how to make it better. > > i know i'm damn close, but currently working of a new db schema, code. > > i personally think the industry has no clue as to why this would be > important to have, as a standard standard, which works. mainly its > controlled by large companies, like mickysoft and apple, that would rather > close off their customer's computers, than give them the freedom to > communicate. > > Do you honestly think we need all the security/virus protection crap whne > 99% of virsuses hijack the browser, come-in through email or word doc > macros? The only APIs that are hidden and open to attach are mickysoft's; > and that is cause they suck....and or, are controlling fear to pump up the > virus software market....notice how no new software has been released since > the late 90s...that is, for sale....virus software is the only thing being > pusshed. > > anyway...total rant...and maybe i'm crazy, but i write code...and been to, > worked for, mickysoft and apple. > > I'm totally willing to help...but as mentioned before, once you have all > the information, getting two computer behind firewalls to connect is a pain > in the ass, and is mostly black-magic. > > lemon > > *Alex Pankratov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > ------------------------------ > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Adam Fisk > *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 11:11 AM > *To:* theory and practice of decentralized computer networks > *Subject:* Re: [p2p-hackers] Best NAT traversal options > > Keep in mind STUN is a pretty basic protocol that doesn't do much work. > ICE does the real heavy lifting in the standards-based NAT traversal > approach, although it leverages STUN all over the place. > > Everyone almost surely uses a STUN-like protocol, as you need to know your > public address in any scheme. > > Actually, you don't :) > > Alex > _______________________________________________ > p2p-hackers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > > > > > You don't get no juice unless you squeeze > Lemon Obrien, the Third. > > http://www.tamago.us > _______________________________________________ > p2p-hackers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > >
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