I disagree with Michael's assessment of the motivation of IETF participants; everybody I've met appears to have the best of intentions.
My concern is the real world always seems like an unwelcome guest in IETF discussions, and I constantly feel like an ass for harping on things like data, implementations, actual use cases, etc. Regardless, I'm eager to hear your (forgive me) real-world results implementing the IETF P2P stack (STUN/ICE/SIP/etc). The proof is in the pudding, so let's eat! -david _____ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Fisk Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:11 AM To: theory and practice of decentralized computer networks Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Best NAT traversal options Right. I forgot I'd seen you over on some of those lists. I'm surprised you participate if you think it's all about commoditizing the competition or gumming things up, though. Which one are you doing? Joking joking. No, I agree the IETF has problems, but some standard emerging out of the p2p hackers list sure would scare me a lot more! -Adam On 9/5/07, Michael Slavitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: For those that need help with that, try this: http://www.google.com/search? <http://www.google.com/search?&q=slavitch%20IETF> &q=slavitch%20IETF On 9/5/07, Michael Slavitch < <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, I know about the IETF. Google is your friend. > > > On 9/5/07, Adam Fisk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Do you know many people who work in or with the IETF? Have you worked with > > the IETF? I'm sincerely asking, because I would be surprised if you had and > > continued to hold your views. They make decisions by "taking a hum" for > > Christ's sake -- similar the yeahs and the neighs (sp?). These people are > > the enemy? To me, it's a miraculous example of cooperation amongst > > frequently competing interests. > > > > -Adam > > > > > > > > On 9/5/07, Michael Slavitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > "The IETF is really not so different from this list -- a bunch of > > > people getting together to make stuff work." > > > > > > Not so sure about that. > > > > > > The goal of participating in a standards body to either make things > > > work to commoditize the competition or gum things up so that they > > > never work, are horrendoes to implement, thereby creating barriers to > > > entry that only you can exploit. > > > > > > Look at IMS, for example. > > > > > > How easy is it to get ICE working, and I mean >working<, not "working". > > > > > > How long has it taken to develop and finalize? > > > _______________________________________________ > > > p2p-hackers mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > p2p-hackers mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers > > > > > > > -- > Michael Slavitch > Ottawa Ontario Canada > -- Michael Slavitch Ottawa Ontario Canada _______________________________________________ p2p-hackers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers
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