i build my own standards cause i want it to be better than the current
standard; and i'm like that. and i like it. i use tcp, udp, and http.
a foot is a foot, but whose foot?
Adam Fisk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Easy. I don't know the details of the PlayStation issue, but clearly you're
not a huge fan of standards. I think standards are nice because they allow us
to talk to each other. Again, HTTP made this whole thing happen in the first
place, then there's TCP, IP, UDP, blah blah blah -- standards built the
Internet as we know it.
The IETF is really not so different from this list -- a bunch of people getting
together to make stuff work. A lot of the people doing the NAT traversal stuff
aren't p2p hacker types, but there are some really knowledgeable people over
there, and I'd caution against underestimating them. VoIP providers need NAT
traversal at least as much as p2p folks, and they've got a lot more money to
devote to the problem. These aren't PhD students. They're engineers at Cisco,
Nokia, Apple, Siemens, etc etc. A lot of the stuff is really elegant.
Anyway, the bottom line is working code, I fully agree. I just don't think we
should waste our energy getting all riled up about whether some standards-based
thing works or not. Who cares? If it doesn't work, don't use it.
-Adam
On 8/31/07, Lemon Obrien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ICE is used by
sony-playstation, they are getting their ass kicked by microsoft cause it's
easier to connect with other people and play games with using their stuff.
basically, too. it is not that hard to get the global ip address of any
client (they connect to your server, you read the infor from the socket); and
it's not too hard to compare port numbers (connect to another server with
seperate ip address) to see what is happening at the firewall(s) level.
don't be fooled by crap-ware standards written by phd students who've never
had a real programming job...think about it, if we did, we'd all use XML in our
udp to move data from one computer to another.
I think if anybody should make standards for this, it should be us, on this
list. I know there are other developrs on this list, some famous, who've done
it before and know how to make it better.
i know i'm damn close, but currently working of a new db schema, code.
i personally think the industry has no clue as to why this would be important
to have, as a standard standard, which works. mainly its controlled by large
companies, like mickysoft and apple, that would rather close off their
customer's computers, than give them the freedom to communicate.
Do you honestly think we need all the security/virus protection crap whne 99%
of virsuses hijack the browser, come-in through email or word doc macros? The
only APIs that are hidden and open to attach are mickysoft's; and that is cause
they suck....and or, are controlling fear to pump up the virus software
market....notice how no new software has been released since the late
90s...that is, for sale....virus software is the only thing being pusshed.
anyway...total rant...and maybe i'm crazy, but i write code...and been to,
worked for, mickysoft and apple.
I'm totally willing to help...but as mentioned before, once you have all the
information, getting two computer behind firewalls to connect is a pain in the
ass, and is mostly black-magic.
lemon
Alex Pankratov < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
---------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Fisk
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:11 AM
To: theory and practice of decentralized computer networks
Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Best NAT traversal options
Keep in mind STUN is a pretty basic protocol that doesn't do much work. ICE
does the real heavy lifting in the standards-based NAT traversal approach,
although it leverages STUN all over the place.
Everyone almost surely uses a STUN-like protocol, as you need to know your
public address in any scheme.
Actually, you don't :)
Alex
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You don't get no juice unless you squeeze
Lemon Obrien, the Third.
http://www.tamago.us
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You don't get no juice unless you squeeze
Lemon Obrien, the Third.
http://www.tamago.us_______________________________________________
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