On Saturday, November 03, 2012 ianG wrote: >> 2. There have been previous experiments similar to what I'm >> proposing? > > Mojo Nation tried to be an economically informed p2p system, but > seemed to run out of grunt as a project.
For the benefit of the people who have not seen it, this list had an old thread that might be interesting to read: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02435.html Best wishes - S.Osokine. 3 Nov 2012. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of ianG Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 12:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Bitcoin incentive on Kademlia networks On 1/11/12 05:36 AM, danimoth wrote: > Hi list, > > I was thinking about a slightly modified Kademlia network, with > an economic incentive to reduce free-riders. > > I thought this incentive as bitcoin's fractions exchanges that may take > place as payment for services provided by nodes. > > For example, there are A and B. B send a FIND_VALUE to A; if A has the > value, before sending the resource it requests a payment from B. When B > pays, the resource is sent. > > There shouldn't be big modifies to be done to already deployed Kademlia > networks, but I think it must be joined by a reputation system to avoid > routing and payments problems, which I identified in [1]. > > So, my questions are: > > 1. Is this idea any good or it's only a waste of time? The essential solution to all trade imbalances relies on money. So if your problem is some form of asymmetric trading, you need a payment system, of some form, and you need an exchange of some form. Beyond this simple statement, however, is a sea of ideas, in which one can easily drown. E.g., you've identified a simple exchange process, discovered a weakness, and then proposed a reputation system to cover the weakness. Adding a reputation system to solve issues is like a deux ex machina in systems; Rep systems are little understood and generally or frequently crap, so chances are you'll end up building something that won't work, and wasting a lot of time in doing it. Better to avoid that and come up with a payment system that doesn't need reputation - or at least one that doesn't lean so heavily on it. As a field you can research it, but you have to be extremely skeptical because much of what is written is unreliable at some level or other. For one example, everything written about gold is tainted by Central Bank marketing (for their own currency). This makes it very confusing if one just reads and assumes what is written is fact... Alternatively, one can build it and try it. But the cycle times are long, it takes a year or so to write a decent money system and get it up and rolling. Alternatively, you cut the gordian knot and make everything free. The system has to work under this constraint. That works for somethings (open source software, songs sharing, etc) but not for all things. > 2. There have been previous experiments similar to what I'm proposing? Mojo Nation tried to be an economically informed p2p system, but seemed to run out of grunt as a project. It failed because it tried to solve every problem, and drowned. http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000571.html http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000572.html In contrast, the projects that spun out of it - BitTorrent? Tahoe? - reduced their problem set dramatically. Either way, you might find Mojo's design to be well worth studying, people say the design wasn't wrong. > [1] Enforcing Collaboration in Peer-to-Peer Routing Services > (by Tim Moreton and Andrew Twigg) That's an unfortunate turn of phrase there, which rather strikes at the heart of the problem you are trying to solve :) iang _______________________________________________ p2p-hackers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers _______________________________________________ p2p-hackers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers
