Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Did you hear about the pseudo PAC unity meeting?
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 12:18:18 +0200
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected];
[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected];
[email protected]; [email protected]
Hi Comrade
It is out of order to put PAC internal contradictions in the Face Book.
It is one thing to communicate by e-mail and the other to use the Facebook.
When and how to use technology in communicating our views is important.
I agree fully with you that PAYCO must cease to use media that is accessed
by everybody even our detractors that is disorderly.
You cannot build an through face book or paycogoogle groups. The issues
we are dealing with are internal party matters not to be displayed in unsecure
sites. For the record none of my e-mails go to such sites as I have blocked
them.
Kind Regards
Cunningham Ngcukana
From: Masande Gonya [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 11 May 2010 12:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: JUSTICE CONCERNED CDE; Cunningham Ngcukana; NTONZIMA; NDAMANE
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Did you hear about the pseudo PAC unity meeting?
Why PAC leaders and members like to write negative messages to each other. If
we are all interested to build the movement is not neccesary to bad mouth
people views.
This struggle of personalities within the movement they will never take us
anywhere. Everyone in this world is having his or her witnesses. The PAC
leaders/PAYCO leaders are doing to nothing in defending the interests of PASMA
institutions of higher learning when PASMA are expelled such as the leadership
from TUT no one is bothering to comment while the leaders where pushing the
program of the movement.
I am appealing to all sons and daughters not focus on personalities or
leadership. We must focus on uniting the movement at all costs. The current
problems were designed by us as membership no one to blame.
I feel exposed as young member of the PAC, because of elder brothers and
sisters are busy insulting each other. Some time when we do program to honour
fallen martyers people get closer and divide us as students leadership because
they want to claim easy victories. Enough is enough!!!!!
The counter revolutionaries must not see other counter revolutinaries. The
resolutionof Cape were clear and everyone is having a responsibility to
partake in party building processes. No one is having a monopoly over PAC,
every one is having a responsibility to ensure the unity within the movement
prevails.
Ndiyanicela Ma-afrika let us treat each other as true comrades not fake
comrades.
PAYCO must be a uniting force not dividing force. Facebook is not a private
thing, Everyone can view the comments from Facebook. Let us be vigilant enough
Ma-Afrika when we are dealing with sensitive issues of PAC. When we mobilise
students from univirsities each and everytime they ask us why PAC is not
united??????, Some other times we take risks and take the PASMA members to
events of the PAC and most of the times we get dissappointed. And the image of
PASMA is destroyed each and everyday no one and at the end of the business
defends us to our masses.
To debate on facebook is not going to assist us at all, let us to talk with all
parties in person. I think when when there is a conflict , I personaly think
their are strategies that can be followed.
In PAC document we talk of african unity , but we are failing to unity
ourselves. Let us practice what we preach.
I choose to pause
On 10 May 2010 19:27, Hulisani Mmbara <[email protected]> wrote:
A Discussion from the wall of PAYCO Facebook group page between April 15 and
April 20, 2010
Justice Mvakali
Ø CDE J MLAMBO APLA CIC IS CALLING ALL PAC NEC FROM 1959 TO DATE, APLA HIGH
COMMAND, ALL FORMER AND CURRENT NEC OF PAYCO, PACYL, APLAMVA, PASMA, PAWO,
PACWL, PASO, PALF, TRADE UNIONS. Agenda PAC UNITY AND WAYFORWARD. APLA AND MOST
PAC MEMBERS SUPPORTS THIS MOVE. LET PAC RISE.
April 15 at 6:36pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø What is the basis and kind of unity that Mlambo is calling for? Letlapa
Mphahlele is a sell out and all his structures are carrying out a
counter-revolutionary programme to destroy the PAC. Does Mlambo want us to
unite with that programme? This call is in my view an infiltration by counter
revolutionary forces in the party to neutralize and ultimately defeat the
progressive agenda to rebuild and reposition the PAC. It is clear that Letlapa
and company are out of order. Did Mlambo ever call them to order?
April 18 at 12:56pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø Why can't Mlambo focus on enjoying his pension and stop causing confusion in
the PAC? Since when is Mlambo a leader enough to broker unity in the Party? He
pretends to be for unity of the PAC but where was he all this time? Letlapa has
been wrecking havoc since 2007. Where was Mlambo and what did he do? We will
not allow people to use their seniority in the party to infiltrate external
programmes into the party under the pretext of 'unity'.
April 18 at 1:06pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø What we need is a return to constitutionality and legitimate leadership not
Mlambo's monkey business.
April 18 at 1:09pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø We must not allow anyone to deflect our focus from core issues and
challenges that confront us now. Unity will take care of itself through a
programme of action of the PAC. We can't have academic debates about unity.
Unity is always unity in action. Once there is order, leadership and a
programme of action. That’s when we will see unity. Unity must be seen through
collective action. We can't romanticize about unity. Unity must be unity of the
same minds and action. Unity is found in action, not cheap sentiments!
April 18 at 1:21pm
Vuyo Mo Ludidi
Ø M'Afrika Mmbara you seem to be against the call by Cde Mlambo. Can you
substantiate your position as I’m convinced you are not against the idea of
unity but rather the initiative, I suspect. Izwe Lethu!
April 19 at 4:01pm
Justice Mvakali
Ø CDE MBARA, THE BEST WOULD BE FOR YOU TO GO TO CDE MLAMBO AND ASK THOSE
QUESTIONS. BUT YOU DONT JUST DISMISS ANYTHING WITHOUT GETTING FACTS ABOUT IT.
YOU SOUND ANGRY AND THAT DOES NOT HELP. WE NEED A UNITED PAC ON THE BASIS OF
PRINCIPLE. MOST OF THE PEOLPLE HAD THEIR OWN FLOPS IN THE PARTY BUT WE ARE
MATURED CADRES SO WE MUST FOCUS ON WHAT BUILDS THE PAC THAN WHAT DESTOYS IT. WE
CAN DEBATE THIS ISSUE BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY PAC WILL REMAIN DEVIDED.
ATLEAST MLAMBO IS TRYING TO GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ISSUES. FIRST OF ALL
THE CONSTITUTIONALITY YOU REFER TO AND THE LEGITIMATE LEARDERSHIP DEMANDS US TO
FORM BRANCHES AND BUILD THE PARTY AS PER RESOLUTION IN CAPE TOWN AND THE IS NO
ADMIN SYSTEM IN PLACE TO MONITOR THAT AND PPL ASKED FOR MEMBERSHIP FORMS AND
CARDS HOW DO YOU ANSWER THAT? LET MLAMBO TAKE THE INITIATIVE AND SEE.
April 19 at 5:34pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø Comrades I am not against unity in principle which means rallying around
implementation of a party programme. But I am against unity of convenience
between those who are committed to rebuilding the party and those who are
destroying it. What kind of unity is that? What Mlambo should be doing is to
call order on Letlapa, which he has never done. There was a convention in Cape
Town last November where all party members concerned about the state of the
party discussed comprehensive strategies.
April 19 at 6:21pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø Mlambo should have gone there instead of trying to create a little side
show. @Justice I have facts about this situation and my contradiction with this
reactionary initiative which you seem to be promoting is based on assessment of
internal dynamics over a long period of time. I will not waste my time asking
Mlambo the obvious. He was in the wilderness (and this you know very well) all
along and in my view he is neither an informed nor an honest broker.
April 19 at 6:30pm
Justice Mvakali
Ø I disagree with you Mbara on your approach. One of the resolutions in Cape
was to try and bring those who were not active back to the PAC. And that
applies to Mlambo as well. As leaders we must be objective in dealing with the
issues in the party. If he did nothing in the past at least he is trying to do
something now. I can give you the list of comrades who are just like Mlambo and
we work with them in the working committee. Why can’t we focus on the
principles of party building, constructive criticism, and party discipline and
do away with mistaken ideas in the party
April 19 at 6:40pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø You refer to him as commander in chief (cic) of APLA. My questions were
directed to you to clarify your commander's command. There is a lot of work
that needs to be done to put PAC on the right track and I have little time for
counter-revolutionary programmes such as the one Mlambo is pursuing. It is true
that his vague call for unity may sound attractive while he is just stalling
and frustrating decisive resolution of the problems at hand.
April 19 at 6:50pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø This issue of Mlambo was also on the agenda of the PAC National Task Team
(which you and other members of the party nominated last year in Cape Town at
the convention) meeting held on Saturday for the whole day and as such there is
no question of me not having facts about this issue.
April 19 at 6:54pm
Justice Mvakali
Ø Ok let answer these question. FIRST OF ALL THE CONSTITUTIONALITY YOU REFER
TO AND THE LEGITIMATE LEARDERSHIP DEMANDS US TO FORM BRANCHES AND BUILD THE
PARTY AS PER RESOLUTION IN CAPE TOWN AND THE IS NO ADMIN SYSTEM IN PLACE TO
MONITOR THAT AND PPL ASKED FOR MEMBERSHIP FORMS AND CARDS HOW DO YOU ANSWER
THAT?
April 19 at 7:00pm
Justice Mvakali
Ø Let’s play the ball not Mlambo. There is no use to say all those things
about him when you did not go on fact finding. No investigation no right to
talk. Go and get his point of view, don’t stick to his past.
April 19 at 7:07pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø @Justice. I am never confused by calls for 'facts' and 'investigations'.
Soon we will be called to a prayer session and urged to put our faith in God to
bring sanity in the party. This thing of believing baseless and purposeless
unity will bring cohesion in the party is the height of idealism. In a
revolutionary party it matters what you have done in the past. We must remain
vigilant and guard against infiltration. It is nothing personal. I have been
consistently active in this party and I know what is happening. In the process
I have also learned effective ways to deal with dubious characters like Mlambo
and expose their tricks to broad day light. I am personally disappointed with
Mlambo. In December we attended the funeral of the late Masemola, APLAMVA
chairperson of Tshwane at the time, where Mlambo was ashamed of being
recognized as a PAC. He even grabbed some of us not to come forward when PAC
members were called to come forward and sing revolutionary songs. Mind you
Masemola served time on Robben Island together with Mlambo and on the day of
his send off his comrades like Mlambo hides their heads in the sands because it
is apparently embarrassing to identify with PAC in public. All of a sudden
Mlambo has found his mojo again and want to unite PAC, the organization he, of
late for reasons known to himself, is ashamed of identifying with publicly. I
will not entertain Mlambo. You know that in the history of the PAC, despite his
recent suspicious behavior, Mlambo has been the weakest link. I also find it
funny that no one in APLMVA agreed to participate in the PAC national task team
elected in Cape Town, for reasons that are not known. I see you talk about the
working committee. Which working committee is this? Is the task of this working
committee more important than the task of the PAC national task team created to
guide the overall rebuilding and renewal of the party?
April 20 at 10:01am
Vuyo Mo Ludidi
Ø M'Afrika Mbara your are obviously a strong & firm comrade, I admire that in
you Son. What you need to guard against though Son is appearing emotional in
your articulation on positions. If you are dealing with a mass movement like
the PAC you will have to except that the majority of the membership would be
non active. Consequently they might not be clued up or up to date, I which case
you will be required to be persuasive in your arguments.
You must not come out as being non-tolerant to the non active members as it
might be intimidating. Contrary, your arguments must be pregnant with
information & substance. I again suggest that we tone down on aggressive
language & practice extreme tolerance amongst each other. Forward to the United
States of Afrika....Izwe Lethu!
April 20 at 1:56pm
Justice Mvakali
Ø @ MBARA, you still have not answer the Question. FIRST OF ALL THE
CONSTITUTIONALITY YOU REFER TO AND THE LEGITIMATE LEARDERSHIP DEMANDS US TO
FORM BRANCHES AND BUILD THE PARTY AS PER RESOLUTION IN CAPE TOWN AND THE IS NO
ADMIN SYSTEM IN PLACE TO MONITOR THAT AND PPL ASKED FOR MEMBERSHIP FORMS AND
CARDS HOW DO YOU ANSWER THAT?
April 20 at 2:28pm
Hulisani Mmbara
Ø MAfrika Vuyo I agree with you 100% when it comes to the rank and file. It’s
just that forthrightness and firmness depending on circumstances may be
required when you deal with those who consider themselves cadres. There is no
anger at all involved. The truth has to be told even if it’s difficult to
swallow. One of the weaknesses of the PAC is that we like romanticizing matters
of life and death instead of dealing with them decisively. We like papering the
cracks but complain when the bricks of a defective house fall on us. We don’t
want to offend some members of the party even when they are wrong and causing
harm to the party. MAfrika Justice here is my answer: at the last meeting of
the PAC national task team on Saturday we resolved that we will open an office
and start creating a database of membership. The office space with a landline
and an administrator has been located and will start operating soon. If APLAMVA
was attending these meetings and participating, it would have been aware of
this development. Now can you also answer my question: WHY IS APLAMVA KEEPING A
DISTANCE FROM THE TASK TEAM? WHY DID APLAMVA REFUSED TO BE INCLUDED IN THE TASK
TEAM? IF APLMVA IS REFUSING TO COME UNDER ONE UMBRELLA WITH THOSE WHO WERE
MANDATED BY THE CONVENTION, HOW DOES IT WANT TO SHAPE AND INFLUENCE PARTY
BUILDING PROCESS? Please comrade, I want to know if you recognize (I know you
attended) the PAC convention held in Cape Town last year, its purpose and its
outcomes. If not, why and what is then your alternative?
April 20 at 4:56pm
Justice Mvakali
Ø @MBARA. I WILL INBOX YOU ON THIS ONE DUE TO THE COURT CASE THAT IS PENDING I
CAN NOT COMPROMISE THE CASE BY RESPONDING TO FACE BOOK CAUSE I DONT KNOW WHO IS
WAITING FOR THE OPPORTUNITY. HOPE THAT WOULD BE FAIR
April 20 at 5:24pm
……..the end
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
--
Sending your posting to [email protected]
Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected]
You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
--
“If you want to go fast, go alone; but if you want to go far, go together.”
Lineo Nalane (from Lesotho) in 2007
NOTICE - This message contains privileged and confidential information intended
only for the use of the addressee named above.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination, copying, disclosure or other use of,
or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by person or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by return
email and delete this message. This message should not be copied or used for
any purpose other than intended, nor should it be disclosed to any other
person. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
except where the sender specifically states them to be the view of Investec
Group, its subsidiaries or associates.
The Investec Group is not liable for the security of information sent by e-mail
at your request, nor for the proper and complete transmission of the
information contained in the communication nor for any delay in its receipt.
Please note that the recipient must scan this e-mail and any attached files for
viruses and the like.
The Investec Group accepts no liability of whatever nature for any loss,
liability, damage or expense resulting directly or indirectly from the access
of any files which are attached to this message.
Investec Asset Management Limited
Registered office: 2 Gresham Street, London, EC2V 7QP
Company No. 2036094
Incorporated in England and Wales
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
--
Sending your posting to [email protected]
Unsubscribe by sending an email to [email protected]
You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
