That was for a BARD player, either we pay it directly or through our tax dollars.
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:38 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I'm confused. Who's paying three bills? Where's the analogy? -- Christopher [email protected] On 4/19/2010 12:31 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: > OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of > your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming > out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their > paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their > reaction. Still no double standard? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM > To: PC Audio Discussion List > Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing > > I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous > RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against > blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went > after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, > Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible > and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or > > used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't > think there's a double standard here. > > I won't even go near the recliner analogy. > > -- > > Christopher > [email protected] > > > On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: > >> What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person >> can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they >> > don't > >> face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that >> quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A >> > sighted > >> lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their >> borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people >> with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect >> > of > >> this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are >> more prone to piracy then the general public. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM >> To: PC Audio Discussion List >> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >> >> Here are your words frank: >> [email protected]> >> To: "PC Audio Discussion List"< >> [email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM >> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >> >> >> >>> You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, >>> dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think >>> blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, >>> that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does >>> not? >>> >>> >> What did you mean by this? >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frank Ventura"<[email protected]> >> To: "PC Audio Discussion List"<[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM >> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >> >> >> >> >>> Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would >>> allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they >>> >>> >> would >> >> >>> not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make >>> material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as >>> >>> >> BARD >> >> >>> but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit >>> >>> >> business >> >> >>> of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending >>> library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only >>> read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. >>> > But, > >>> of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to >>> > fit > >>> the bill for that LazyBoy. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher >>> >>> >> Chaltain >> >> >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM >>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give >>> >>> >> them >> >> >>> away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD >>> >>> >> books >> >> >>> is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public >>> >>> >> and >> >> >>> impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is >>> >>> >> necessary >> >> >>> in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the >>> >>> >> attitude >> >> >>> of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession >>> they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the >>> > NLS > >>> >>> >> >> >>> and other companies and agencies need to take such action. >>> >>> Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it >>> > for > >>> >>> >> a >> >> >>> profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money >>> >>> >> (whatever >> >> >>> that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking >>> >>> >> about. >> >> >>> If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal >>> > and > >>> >>> >> >> >>> you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players >>> > are > >>> >>> >> >> >>> raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature >>> >>> >> they're >> >> >>> boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the >>> > way. > >>> >>> Christopher >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: >>> >>> >>>> If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the >>>> librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot >>>> > read > >>>> the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to >>>> which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those >>>> > new > >>>> digital players and someone is making tons of money building and >>>> >>>> >>> selling >>> >>> >>>> them to the government and someone in said government is receiving >>>> "incentives" to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it >>>> >>>> >> is >> >> >>>> all about money? >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of James Homuth >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM >>>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' >>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download >>>> your >>>> copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no >>>> >>>> >>> legal >>> >>> >>>> authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that >>>> >>>> >>> copy. >>> >>> >>>> Not >>>> only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than >>>> > even > >>>> the >>>> most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example >>>> >>>> >>> of >>> >>> >>>> iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. >>>> Apple no >>>> longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn >>>> >>>> >>> them >>> >>> >>>> to a >>>> CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. >>>> >>>> >>> And >>> >>> >>>> it's >>>> business models like that that convince people to do things you >>>> > would > >>>> call >>>> stealing. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM >>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "mitchell"<[email protected]> >>>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM >>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and >>>>> >>>>> >>> down >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> load >>>>> the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is >>>>> >>>>> >>> tom >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> or >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it >>>>> steeling? >>>>> Mitchell >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Behalf Of James Homuth >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM >>>>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' >>>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They >>>>> > tried > >>>>> limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc >>>>> >>>>> >>> on >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> in >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact >>>>> >>>>> >> same >> >> >>>>> reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands >>>>> >>>>> >> on >> >> >>>>> something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're >>>>> >>>>> >>> going >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on >>>>> > a > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> CD, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> or >>>>> copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number >>>>> >>>>> >>> of >>> >>> >>>>> things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> something >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> else >>>>> with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though >>>>> >>>>> >>> they >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> have >>>>> legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means >>>>> >>>>> >> to >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> do >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> so. >>>>> Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, >>>>> > people > >>>>> should >>>>> be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of >>>>> > the > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> world >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their >>>>> acquisitions. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>>>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM >>>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to >>>>> > qualify > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> for >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> their service by being blind and having a player that they >>>>> >>>>> >> authroize. >> >> >>>>> There >>>>> is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> type >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> services. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "mitchell"<[email protected]> >>>>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM >>>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use >>>>>> bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. >>>>>> Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am >>>>>> concerned. >>>>>> Mitchell >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>> On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok, so you say, "it's still stealing." >>>>>> Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you >>>>>> download music and audio books without having to pay anything for >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> it? >>> >>> >>>>>> Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and >>>>>> audio books without having to pay a dime for it. >>>>>> Explain that one to me, if you can! >>>>>> John. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Tom"<[email protected]> >>>>>> To:<[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM >>>>>> Subject: It's Still Stealing >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> to >>> >>> >>>>>>> copy it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> High Tom, >>>>>>>> I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If he says yes, then I do it. >>>>>>>> But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >> [email protected] >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >> [email protected] >> >> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [email protected] > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [email protected] To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [email protected]
