I agree that publishers would go after the libraries if they felt that their material was being copied but we never hear of this happening so I assume it is not a significant issue. So back to my point that if mainstream lending libraries don't have such drastic restrictions on their loaned material and seem to be relatively trouble free why should BARD be considerably more proactive? Again I ask are blind folks more predispositioned to piracy or is just to promote the sale of players, I suspect the latter.
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:26 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Copying DVD's you borrow from Blockbuster violates your terms and conditions with Blockbuster. It's also stealing that DVD from the DVD's distributor. Just because they're not doing more to proactively prevent you from copying the DVD, through implementing some DVD copy protection, doesn't make it legal for you to copy the DVD. I'm not sure how you know this isn't effecting blockbuster's bottom line. Given their financial woes of late, they obviously have a lot of pressure on their bottom line. I also disagree that your library doesn't care if you're making copies of their books. If publishers thought that library patrons were making copies of library books and that was cutting into their bottom line then they'd go after the libraries or stop making books available to the libraries. This isn't much of an issue with hardcopies, but it's obviously more of an issue for digital material where the copying and distribution process is so easy and inexpensive. I suppose it's true that libraries don't care what MP3 player you use, but as with most material on Overdrive, they do want you to play it on a player capable of playing DRM protected WMA files. The original DRM protected WMA file will also expire after two weeks and then according to your terms and conditions, you are responsible for destroying any copies you made for your own personal use. If I'm following your logic then it would be OK if everyone proactively pursued some sort of copy protection. Your argument seems to be that copy protection isn't bad just the fact that the methods of copy protection are inconsistent. -- Christopher [email protected] On 4/19/2010 10:45 AM, James Homuth wrote: > They may not openly allow you to copy a book, but they're not openly > stopping you either. It's the same thing with renting a movie from > Blockbuster and copying it onto a blank DVD. They don't openly allow you, > but Blockbuster's not doing much to discourage you either. And it hasn't > exactly hurt their bottom line any. At least, not anymore than places like > Netflicks do, who actually allow you to stream movies online right from > their website, legally. Your local library's the same way. Whether or not > you take the book home, copy it, and bring it back, or not, isn't hurting > their bottom line any. At the end of the day, you still only check the book > out once. The library probably doesn't really care what you do with it > afterwards, so long as it comes back in the same condition it left in. I > could go into my library, check out a book, give it to you for a week to > read if you don't have a card at that particular library, then turn it back > in at the end of the week. Did you copy it during that week you had it? > Maybe, maybe not. Do I care? No. Does the library? No, so long as I still > bring the original book back at the end of the week. And again, just to > drive the point home, the public library doesn't care what you use to play > that audiobook you checked out from them. You don't need to check out a > specific MP3 player just to be able to listen to it. So really, that's a > pretty bad comparison to BARD if you really want to stick to it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright > Sent: April 19, 2010 11:02 AM > To: PC Audio Discussion List; PC Audio Discussion List > Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing > > Here are your words frank: > [email protected]> > To: "PC Audio Discussion List"< > [email protected]> > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM > Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing > > >> You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, >> dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think >> blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, >> that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does >> not? >> > What did you mean by this? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Ventura"<[email protected]> > To: "PC Audio Discussion List"<[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM > Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing > > > >> Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would >> allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would >> not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make >> material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD >> but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business >> of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending >> library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only >> read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, >> of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit >> the bill for that LazyBoy. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM >> To: PC Audio Discussion List >> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >> >> No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them >> >> away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books >> is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and >> >> impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary >> >> in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude >> >> of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession >> they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS >> and other companies and agencies need to take such action. >> >> Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a >> >> profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever >> >> that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. >> If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and >> you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are >> raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're >> boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. >> >> >> Christopher >> [email protected] >> >> >> On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: >> >>> If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the >>> librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read >>> the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to >>> which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new >>> digital players and someone is making tons of money building and >>> >> selling >> >>> them to the government and someone in said government is receiving >>> "incentives" to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is >>> all about money? >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of James Homuth >>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM >>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' >>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download >>> your >>> copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no >>> >> legal >> >>> authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that >>> >> copy. >> >>> Not >>> only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even >>> the >>> most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example >>> >> of >> >>> iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. >>> Apple no >>> longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn >>> >> them >> >>> to a >>> CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. >>> >> And >> >>> it's >>> business models like that that convince people to do things you would >>> call >>> stealing. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM >>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "mitchell"<[email protected]> >>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<[email protected]> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM >>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and >>>> >> down >> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> load >>>> the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is >>>> >> tom >> >>>> >>>> >>> or >>> >>> >>>> anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it >>>> steeling? >>>> Mitchell >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>> >>> >>>> On Behalf Of James Homuth >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM >>>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' >>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried >>>> limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc >>>> >> on >> >>>> >>>> >>> in >>> >>> >>>> the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same >>>> reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on >>>> something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're >>>> >> going >> >>>> >>>> >>> to >>> >>> >>>> want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a >>>> >>>> >>> CD, >>> >>> >>>> or >>>> copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number >>>> >> of >> >>>> things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do >>>> >>>> >>> something >>> >>> >>>> else >>>> with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though >>>> >> they >> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> have >>>> legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to >>>> >>>> >>> do >>> >>> >>>> so. >>>> Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people >>>> should >>>> be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the >>>> >>>> >>> world >>> >>> >>>> and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their >>>> acquisitions. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>> >>> >>>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM >>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify >>>> >>>> >>> for >>> >>> >>>> their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. >>>> There >>>> is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare >>>> >>>> >>> type >>> >>> >>>> services. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "mitchell"<[email protected]> >>>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM >>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use >>>>> bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. >>>>> Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am >>>>> concerned. >>>>> Mitchell >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>> On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> Ok, so you say, "it's still stealing." >>>>> Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you >>>>> download music and audio books without having to pay anything for >>>>> >> it? >> >>>>> Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and >>>>> audio books without having to pay a dime for it. >>>>> Explain that one to me, if you can! >>>>> John. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom"<[email protected]> >>>>> To:<[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM >>>>> Subject: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission >>>>>> >> to >> >>>>>> copy it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> High Tom, >>>>>>> I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> do it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If he says yes, then I do it. >>>>>>> But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [email protected] To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [email protected]
