i decided to reply to you at length on this. your reply to my question actually is not at all like mud. I follow you .
I know i am experimenting with things Apple didn;'t forsee us doing on a 6360, but I think i am understanding the requirements I am playing with. the real frustration is how limited the damn foxconn mobo is. and this case. so to recap: i must have 3 buses here, then. on the motherboard, a bus 0 for the mobo SCSI controller a bus 1 for the external SCSI chain and a bus 2 for the mobo IDE controller. apple must have meant for this to originally take: bus 0 on the mobo for SCSI was intended to connect to the CD ROM internal drive. it would be set to SCSI ID 3, by convention, and it right now is terminated bus 1 out the back was meant for the SCSI external chain, any device on which has to get its own unique SCSI ID number, and the final device on that chain has to be terminated, if I put anything out the back on that chain or port. bus 2 is the internal IDE bus, which apple put only one device on when they designed this: an IDE hard drive, which is the single device on the IDE bus, so it is the master device by default. the mobo came with an IDE ribbon with only one connector on it, as far as I can tell, and if that is all i have to work with, then OK, I can deal with that. I'll put just one IDE device on it, and know that since it's a single device, it is the master IDE device by default. in terms of where things can physically fit in the spaces provided, a CD ROM and a DVD ROM have the same dimensions an IDE hard drive and a SCSI hard drive can have the same dimensions so i could put the DVD ROM where the CD ROM fit. and the hard drive where the hard drive fit. as far as buses and connectors: if the original ribbon cables reach without stress, I can plug the IDE cable into the DVD drive I can plug the SCSI cable into a hard drive hook up the power connectors too and be sure the hard drive is terminated and gets a unique ID #. it will be the only device on the internal SCSI bus besides the SCSI controller on the mobo itself. since the DVD drive will be the only IDE device connected to the IDE bus, it won't need to be jumpered to master or slave, becuase it's alone on the bus. and moving to bus 1, the external SCSI bus, out the back, I can put the original CD ROM drive out there in a case, leave the ID alone at ID 3, and leave the termination as it was internally, since it was terminated when inside, and in either place it would be the only or the last device on the bus. if i add more devices to the external SCSI chain, I can push that CD ROM drive out to the end, or i can de- terminate it and add things further out, and terminate the final one of them. now: point of interest: you tell me an IDE bus can only take at most , two devices, and if two, one has to be set at master and one at slave. i have some scant experience with this, having taken apart and reassembled my kid's dad's PC over into a new case, and having had to buy longer 2 device IDE ribbon cables, to reach the board in the new housing. he had put little labels on his internal devices to show the jumper settings for master and slave on them, which i preserved when i moved them over. this foxconn mobo design irritates me at things like this. i am not sure yet, but i wonder if foxconn used the standard cables with their strange interface design. i guess they had to, or the cables couldnt fit onto standard floppie, hard or CD ROM drives, right? so let us assume that the SCSI ribbon and the IDE ribbon I will find when i get in there, will be the usual expected size i have already handled when working inside other macs and that one PC. i expect that the IDE ribbon in this machine will be a single device ribbon. because Apple only put a single IDE device in this console. they gave it an IDE hard drive. and put it on bus 2, the IDE bus. but you are reminding me that an IDE bus can take two devices, if one is master and one is slave. which makes me ask if this machine's IDE controller can handle 2 devices on the IDE bus. what if I forsook the internal scsi bus, and instead put a 2 device IDE ribbon on the IDE bus, and set my IDE hard drive to master, and the DVD drive to slave? apple never expected us to do this...but if IDE can take 2 devices.. could I?. now as to drivers and s/w obviously this machine expects to find an IDE hard drive on the IDE bus. that;s how apple meant it. if it finds an IDE DVD ROM there, what wil the machine's gestalt 'think'? what is in the ROM of the machine, and will it be totally confused to encounter this hardware at bootup.? if it finds a SCSI hard drive where it expects a SCSI CD ROM, same question again. wonder if it will 'care'? i have the original system cd this came with. since it's for the 6360, would it be ROM coded to do the hardware sensing check at bootup, and be confounded to find different devices plugged into the ends of the buses than apple meant to be there? I wonder who would know something this arcane. the external SCSI bus isn't gonna care, I'm sure. It's programmed to expect damn near anything that's SCSI. It's a jack of all trades. and somehow for the same reason, I don't think the internal SCSI bus is gonna care if it finds a CD ROM there, or a SCSI hard drive, or finds nothing connected to it. the one that interests me is the IDE bus. it expects to find an IDE hard drive there. it might not be programmed to encounter a DVD ROM drive, or to find two IDE devices, a hard drive, AND and DVD ROM drive there. or does it care? bear with me. people have successfully put DVD ROM drives onto their 6400's and gotten the machine to see it and accept it and run it in OS 9.1. both xlr8yourmac and the 6400 zone have accounts from folks who have it running and working just fine. they have links at both places telling what to put in your system folder to enable it. i am plotting this with the intent to do what they did , with either partitoning my internal hard drive or an external one on the SCSI chain, with system 7.6.1 on one partiton, 8.1 in another, 8.6 in a another, and OS 9.1 in the last. so in OS 9.1 with their prescribed hacks, i would think the machine would have what it needed to 'see' the DVD drive and operate it. maybe the question is, do those OS 9 hacks care if the drive is SCSI or IDE? i know OS 9 was for machines that could take more devices in the bays, the tower models like the 8xxx and 9xxx models, and the G3 and G4 tower cases. and since these have PCI and AGP slots, and use IDE devices, and use more than one if the person wants to, I would think OS 9.1 would be ready for either kind of DVD interface. SCSI or IDE., and for master/slave IDE arranging. my wonder is whether the versatility to do that is in the machine's ROM? or is it in the OS 9 code? like i said, I'm fiddling with things here that apple never forsaw. your thoughts? janet http://community.webtv.net/mensabrains/BADCODE -- PCI-PowerMacs is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and... Small Dog Electronics http://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Sonnet & PowerLogix Upgrades - start at $169 | & CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac <http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html> PCI-PowerMacs list info: <http://lowendmac.com/lists/pci-powermacs.shtml> --> AOL users, remove "mailto:"; Send list messages to: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To unsubscribe, email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For digest mode, email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subscription questions: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Archive:<http://www.mail-archive.com/pci-powermacs%40mail.maclaunch.com/> Using a Mac? 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