On Jan 13, 2012, at 12:59 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <h...@at.or.at> >> To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancs...@yahoo.com> >> Cc: Max <abonneme...@revolwear.com>; pd list <pd-list@iem.at>; Ben >> Baker-Smith <bbakersm...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:20 PM >> Subject: Re: Tooltips in Pd-extended 0.43 WAS: no pd?? WTF ???? >> >> >> On Jan 12, 2012, at 10:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <h...@at.or.at> >>>> To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancs...@yahoo.com> >>>> Cc: Max <abonneme...@revolwear.com>; pd list >> <pd-list@iem.at>; Ben Baker-Smith <bbakersm...@gmail.com> >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:50 PM >>>> Subject: Tooltips in Pd-extended 0.43 WAS: no pd?? WTF ???? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 12, 2012, at 6:56 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Max <abonneme...@revolwear.com> >>>>>> To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancs...@yahoo.com> >>>>>> Cc: Richie Cyngler <glitch...@gmail.com>; pd list >>>> <pd-list@iem.at>; Ben Baker-Smith <bbakersm...@gmail.com> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:09 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] no pd?? WTF ???? >>>>>> >>>>>> And that's not the end of the vicious cycle. >>>>>> Students who saved their money to buy a Max license are often >> unwilling >>>> to >>>>>> accept that their work could have been done as easy in Pd, and >>>> sometimes even >>>>>> better and/or easier. >>>>> >>>>> If you think of free >>>>> software as an ethical issue like I do and are talking about free >> programs >>>> that have a >>>>> proprietary alternative, there is still an important division >> between those >>>> programs that are >>>>> free and superior to their proprietary counterparts on practical >> grounds, >>>> and those that >>>>> don't have the same feature set as their proprietary >> counterparts (but >>>> are still quite good). >>>>> >>>>> In terms of ease of patching, Pd is clearly in the latter camp-- >> Max has >>>> infinite undo, a >>>>> "Tidy Up" that actually _does_ something useful, and a >> set of >>>> externals that allows to make >>>>> multiple connections at once and lots of other shortcuts (maybe >> these are >>>> part of the core now, >>>>> I'm not sure). Plus tooltips, anchors to resize >> guis/boxes/messages, >>>> and probably lots of >>>>> other things that make patching easier. >>>>> >>>>> I use Pd and free software (almost) exclusively, but we should be >> clear >>>> about which features >>>>> are available and which are not. >>>> >>>> Excellent point. >>>> >>>> Speaking of, is your tooltips patch fully functional in Pd-extended >> 0.43? I >>>> believe it is included, right? It would be great to ship with that >> working. >>> >>> There was the problem that if you did [loadbang]-[tip 1 blah blah blah(-[s >> pd-this-canvas.pd] >>> the label doesn't get the right width. I tried using the >> <<Loaded>> virtual event and it didn't >>> work, and then I think you said that the patch should be finished drawing >> before <<Loaded>> >>> happens. >>> >>> I could just use after idle or update idletasks but those are heavily >> critiqued on the tcl wiki... >> >> 'update' is bad news, but 'after idle' is fine. It just might >> lead to tricky bugs since things will not necessarily execute in the order >> you >> might think. > > The "tricky bugs" warning was what made me not want to use 'after idle'. I > think > in another thread you agreed that <<Loaded>> should get triggered after the > patch is drawn, so a quick and dirty solution would put 'after idle' right > before > the <<Loaded>> virtual event in the relevant proc (with a comment that this > isn't > the best solution). If that sounds like a bad idea, then the tooltips patch > shouldn't > be included until <<Loaded>> works correctly. > > Unless there's another solution I'm not thinking of...
Fixing <<Loaded>> is probably a bigger thing than I can manage for the Pd-extended 0.43 release, but patches are welcome. So the question of the moment is: are the tooltips usable enough to leave them in? Do they cause any problems? .hc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Free software means you control what your computer does. Non-free software means someone else controls that, and to some extent controls you." - Richard M. Stallman _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list