Like I said before, even if some anthropologist comes across evidence of the most brutal tribe in the history of man, I won't be swayed on my belief that Native Americans were a remarkable people. Besides, looking at such things now with modern eyes and societal mores does history an injustice. The Coloseum is a terrific feat of engineering but what took place there was barbaric through modern eyes.
Remember, modern American society produced Jeffrey Dahmer. Cannibalism and ritual torture still exist. I hope that future historians won't judge all of us on the actions of someone like him. -Brendan --- Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can easily find reference in regard to the > cannibalism and other > atrocities. The NY Times printed an article in the > science section a > couple of weeks ago. It's probably still online. > Archaeologists working > in the southwest found human DNA in human feces. And > it didn't match. > They also found evidence of infant sacrifice. Among > the latter were > infant skulls with holes drilled in the back of > them. Apparently, a > slow brutal death. > Paul > On Jan 10, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Brendan MacRae wrote: > > > Not sure about incest and cannibalism. I've never > > heard of these things being prevalent. > > > > In any event, my point is that, in this sense, > idyllic > > is relative. I never said that the New World was a > > peaceful paradise prior to the arrival of whites. > My > > view is that they were better off no matter what > was > > going on prior to colonization. And any harping > about > > what WAS going on is an attempt (in my view) to > > denegrate their prehistory. A way leveling the > playing > > field by saying they were no better than anyone > else. > > Why else bring it up? > > > > That their "true" history is not the "stuff of > > storybooks" means nothing to me. I don't believe > in > > storybooks, only what I've studied and read about. > And > > believing that they had a remarkable society is > not > > simply buying into fairytales. It comes from > > understanding history. > > > > -Brendan > > > > > > > > -Brendan > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> Rape, incest, torture, and cannibalism are > nothing? > >> Sorry, but the view of the native American world > as > >> idyllic is the stuff of storybooks. > >> Paul > >> > >> -------------- Original message > >> ---------------------- > >> From: Brendan MacRae > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Well, maybe not explicitly, no. But "idyllic" is > >> what > >>> most tribes would consider their existance prior > >> to > >>> arrival of whites. They may have had their > >> internal > >>> struggles but it was nothing compared to the > >> onslaught > >>> of white aggression. > >>> > >>> It just seemed like that was where that notion > was > >>> heading. If not, my bad. > >>> > >>> ;-] > >>> > >>> -Brendan > >>> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>> > >>>> No one suggested anything of the kind. My > >> original > >>>> post was in response to a suggestion that life > >> in > >>>> North America was idyllic before the arrival of > >>>> Europeans. > >>>> Paul > >>>> -------------- Original message > >>>> ---------------------- > >>>> From: Brendan MacRae > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>> > >>>>> --- William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Paul Stenquist" Subject: Re: PESO - > >>>> American > >>>>>> Fence > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> But the New York Times is probably the > >> most > >>>>>> liberal daily newspaper in > >>>>>>> the U.S. They always take the side of the > >>>>>> oppressed minority if they > >>>>>>> can. On the other hand, they don't ignore > >>>>>> inconvenient facts. > >>>>>>> Considering the source I wouldn't call > >> this > >>>>>> "history rewritten by the > >>>>>>> victors." The article about the violent > >>>> cultures > >>>>>> of the native > >>>>>>> Americans appeared in the science section. > >> In > >>>>>> truth, it's history > >>>>>>> rewritten by archaeologists. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> My father was a student of local history. > >> His > >>>> take > >>>>>> on pre-European life in > >>>>>> North America pretty much jives with what > >> you > >>>> are > >>>>>> saying. His take on > >>>>>> post-European life from the Aboriginal point > >> of > >>>> view > >>>>>> was that the vilence > >>>>>> shifted from internal to external and they > >>>> really > >>>>>> weren't any better off for > >>>>>> the European invasion. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> William Robb > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> While slavery, copious killing, rape and > >> virtually > >>>>> every other form of barbarism was prevelant > >> among > >>>> the > >>>>> tribes of North America, it was still the > >>>> intrusion of > >>>>> Europeans which caused their near total > >>>> extinction. To > >>>>> suggest that they themselves were at times > >> brutual > >>>>> toward one another is no defense for their > >>>> wholesale > >>>>> slaughter at the hands of whites. > >>>>> > >>>>> -Brendan > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > > _________ > >>>>> ____ > >>>>> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at > >>>> www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > __________________________________________________ > >>> Do You Yahoo!? > >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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