Brendan MacRae wrote:

I've shot 7135 frames with the W60 as of about an hour
ago (processing 416 shots as I type). I've had the
camera since Aug or Sept.

It is too small, but that's the point ('n shoot?). The
on/off IS too close to the shutter. They moved the
MENU button to the worst place they could near the
four way controller instead of by itself on the bottom
(like on my venerable W10). In fact, every control on
the camera is TERRIBLE; too small, too close to other
controls. Worse yet, too many functions require going
into the menus.

Brendan - thanks.... you mentioned everyone one of my complaints.

However, I use the camera for a number
of hours every week and even though it's not "easy" to
use (especially with white gloves on - don't even get
me started), I've fallen in love with this ridiculous
thing.

lol

It has a great lens and it focuses extremely close.

I liked that also.

The resolution is not bad at all and it has the best
dynamic range of any of the Optios I've seen. It also
has a much better LCD which allows for quicker and
more accurate viewing which is VERY important for me
since I rarely shoot any multiple frames of any angle
if I can help it (I can't waste much time shooting
watches before it becomes upside-down financially).
Plus, during the summer's I take the camera to the
pool and shoot video with it...under water.

So, while I agree that the camera is not "easy" to use
and I can only get really good stuff with it under
only very controlled conditions

Yeah - for me the only shot I got that I liked at all was a bear physically.

, I like it. But man,
would I love to tell Pentax how to design the next
one!
-Brendan

I should have just let you answer JOhn :-)

--- John Celio <[email protected]> wrote:

You only have to do it once.
not actually true...  but never mind right now....
In all the more-recent Optios I used to sell, you
only had to set the Memory options once and they'd stick. Whatever it was that allowed the camera to keep time when you changed the battery also held
those memory functions.

You have to remember, P&S cameras are not made to
appeal to advanced
photographers like us.  They're made for
lowest-common-denominator
users, and as such have to be as simple and user
friendly as possible.
Alas, they are not in any way "simple and user
friendly"
A true point and shoot  is a throw away camera
that has a fixed focal
length and speed and DOF....
True P&S?  That's BS.  What you describe is a
single-use P&S camera, a bare-bones snapshot-producing piece of plastic. Point-and-shoot cameras are any cameras that are primarily fully automatic, small, cheap, and lacking interchangeable lenses. There is no rule that says they have to be simple, so anything from a single-use camera to a Leica CM to your former W60 can fall into this category.

The w60,for instance, comes with a book that has
over 100 pages!   They
want you to read the whole
book first!
I don't think any manufacturer truly expects anyone
to actually read a user's manual. This is why every camera you will buy these days is set to be usable right out of the box. This is also why the cameras will reset to these default settings when you shut them off. They tell you to read the manual so they don't get sued when someone tries to cram a AA battery in the SD slot.

I have several friends who thought they would like
digital for the
obvious reasons -- no film charges, ease
of getting prints, fits in your pocket, SIMPLE TO
USE....  the Z10 and
The W60 both have tons of confusing
choices  aimed at  us, actually - they want to put
it all in one.

For better or worse there has been a camera feature
arms race going on ever since digital cameras became affordable, and this arms race causes more features to be crammed into smaller and smaller packages. The nice thing, though, is that:

You Don't Have To Understand All The Features To Use
The Camera!

Forget taking movies, who cares about digital zoom
settings or silly color filters. Point and shoot and look at the photo you've just taken. Nice and easy, because the camera is set to automatic.

Pentax and other companies have to assume that
someone taking snapshots
is going to want the camera to perform exactly the
same way every time
they use it, so they make the camera reset itself
unless someone like
you tells it not to.
No one over  30, does, I guarantee.....   these
cameras are designed for
people who grew up with computers
and like cutsey pie little icons... they may know
nothing about
lighting, timing, composing, but they do seem to
like to have lots of little buttons to push...
This is so not true.  I used to sell cameras to
people from the local retirement community as well as the local high schools and everyone in between. Every customer had their preferences, of course, but there was no indication that older customers had issues with "cutsey pie little icons", nor was there any indication that younger customers knew nothing about the skills you mentioned. Matter of fact, younger users were more likely to know photography than their parents and
grandparents, in my experience.

Pentax tried to make a camera especially to appeal
to EVERYONE... and
that is what is screwed up.
Perhaps you should try a camera from the Optio E
series. They're the simplest cameras Pentax makes. They take AA batteries, the power button is miles from the shutter button, and it has the SUPER-user-friendly "Green Mode" button. Sounds like it would be right up your alley, except it doesn't have a viewfinder. I think you're SOL in
that regard.

The whole world of technology today is a disaster
in terms of user
friendliness - ironic at a time when
there are more and more baby boomers or old
folk....

The "old folk" demographic is not a major one for
tech manufacturers, despite the perception of your age group being large and influential. The people buying stuff are much younger than you, thus there is little incentive for products to conform to your needs. Your age group doesn't have nearly as much influence as the 18-35 demographic. Besides, the Kodak EasyShare system is already targeted at "old folks" and technophobes, so that niche is probably as filled as it's going to
get.

no one I know, regardless of age,
consider the Tv Controls of today are
better , for instance
*shrug* Idunno, I can always figure them out. Trial-and error works for me, but then I don't have cable anymore and only use my
TV for DVDs and the Wii.

See, this is why I tell everyone I know to buy
potentially-complicated things in a specialty store. That way you AT LEAST have a salesperson that can teach you how to use the item when you buy it, and help you out later when you get stuck.

Also, it keeps good people in business.  A few of my
former camera shop coworkers just got laid off today from ANOTHER camera store that's likely closing soon, this time in San Francisco.

John

--
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http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto

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