First, short background: I've done a little photography "instruction" with teen-agers. When the 4-H clubs hold "contests", everybody wins. But everybody also gets feedback on how to improve their efforts at baking, hog raising, photography, whatever. As a sometime judge for the photography portions of our county 4-H program, I have been part of a panel providing feedback and suggestions to the "contestants".
Unless you run into a real geek, kids at that level don't care about technology. Film? That is the stuff you take to either Walmart or Walgreens Drug Store. Digital? That is when you can plug the card right into the print machine at Walmart or Walgreens and not have to wait for the film to go someplace and be brought back from wherever it went. Exposure? Depth of field? Camera shake? Just more technical gobblydegook. Kids interested in photography are more likely interested in the images that come out. I think I said something like this before in this thread, but I like the way Bruce put it: > If I go to a basic photography course I want to learn how to tell a better > story using images. The technical stuff can be brought in along the way, and the truly interested student with a geeky bent will listen and possibly remember something about f/stops and depth of field and the tradeoffs among exposure and shutter speeds and film/sensor speed, and be able to build on that. But if they don't learn first that photography is a way to show others how they themselves see the world, then they won't care about the subtleties of taking and processing that image. Larry, you say: "...spending a day with physical photography rather than going right into digital, is because it would be cool and fun." I love the idea of using film and putting people in a darkroom to develop the film, print the prints. In the 2nd or 3rd course maybe. But I just don't see how the cool and fun (?) aspect of film is going to inform beginning students about how to use their digital cameras to capture images that reflect their own artistic sensibilities. stan On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:06 PM, Larry Colen wrote: > > > On 1/21/2012 5:40 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: >> This is late and probably nobody cares anymore, but I have to say my >> piece or I'll fidget. >> >> Larry and a few others suggest using film cameras in a beginners >> course on photography. I think this is crazy and here's my analogy: >> it's like giving a beginning writing course and requiring everyone to >> show up with an old mechanical Underwood typewriter, then learn how to >> thread the ribbon and apply white-out. >> >> If I go to a basic writing course, I'm there to learn how to write. >> Not how to work an obsolete typewriter. I want to learn how to tell a >> better story using words. >> >> If I go to a basic photography course I want to learn how to tell a >> better story using images. >> >> >> Okay, I can sleep now. > > You make some good points. And I should explain my reasons. > > I suggested using a film camera for one day, not for the whole course. > > First and foremost, there is something very cool, about taking a photo, > developing the film, and seeing and having the tangible evidence in your > hands. > > I suppose that a lot of this could be done using photo paper and contact > prints. Or for that matter, photo paper and a pin hole camera that they made > themselves. Then possibly contact prints by placing the paper negative face > to face with another piece of photo paper. > > I also suggested looking at the negatives, and using those as a way of > understanding exposure. I think that using film, and explicitly thinking > about each step of the process would do more to bring home the concepts than > magic handwaving and a camera that does everything for you. > > As to your typewriter analogy, I would not require people to use a typewriter > in a creative writing class. However, I might well have them write and maybe > even do the first edit of a piece long hand. Writing things out long hand > slows you down, and forces you to think about each and every word. It also > discourages verbal diarrhea, since it takes so much more effort to write. In > the same vein, shooting with a completely manual camera forces you to look at > each step of the process, think about it and correct any errors earlier. > > But, my main reason for suggesting spending a day with physical photography > rather than going right into digital, is because it would be cool and fun. > In retrospect, contact prints, or possibly contact prints and pinhole > cameras would likely work even better, if for no other reason than the skill > required to roll film onto the developing reels. > > It would probably be fairly easy to make the equivalent of an enlarger for > contact prints out of a clamp light, and some cardboard and aluminum foil so > that one student could expose their contact print and not everyone else's at > the same time too. > > >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Larry Colen<[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Jan 14, 2012, at 8:01 AM, Christine Nielsen wrote: >>>> Thus far, this is what I'm assuming: >>>> >>>> - Kids aged 9& up... maybe even a 9-12 group, and a 13& up? >>>> - Mostly p& s cameras, esp with younger kids >>>> - Composition getting greater emphasis than ins& out of exposure - >>>> we'll deal in Auto modes >>> >>> >>>> - Teaching practical applications... finding "good" light, how to >>>> photograph your friends, your pet, sports, landscapes, your vacation, >>>> macro, etc... >>>> - Keep it fun... a photo scavenger hunt? a website they can post >>>> pics/contribute to? "A day in the life", or other photo projects..? >>>> - Maybe 4 - 6 classes, 90 mins each >>>> >>>> What do you think? Anyone out there ever done this sort of thing, or >>>> have any good resources to share? I'd be most grateful... >>> >>> I doubt that I'm the only one on this list that learned photography at age >>> 12 using a fully manual camera, and processed my own film in a darkroom. >>> Don't underestimate the ability of younger people to understand things like >>> exposure. >>> >>> For a young kids class, I'd teach them: >>> how to hold the camera >>> How to look for good light: >>> not shooting into the light >>> not mixing sun and shade >>> enough light >>> how to use zoom, how to wait for focus >>> How to put the camera on a tripod (or a beanbag) and use the self timer >>> don't aim directly at a window with the flash >>> >>> extra credit >>> fill flash >>> composition >>> >>> >>> As a matter of fact, that's pretty much the stuff I'd teach people who >>> don't want to learn photography, but want to take pictures. >>> >>> For general photography I'd suggest: >>> All ages, kids under 12 by special permission. This way parents and kids >>> could do it together. >>> Adults only >>> >>> I'd ask around for people with developing tanks, changing bags, old 35 mm >>> cameras and light meters collecting dust. >>> >>> Day1: >>> I'd cover the basics in the above class. Homework, go and play with cameras >>> Day 2: >>> I'd teach them the basics of exposure, using the histogram to illustrate. >>> I'd then show them how to use a lightmeter (internal or external) then give >>> them each a roll of Tri-X and a camera/lightmeter, and show them how to >>> load/unload the camera and give them until the next class session to shoot >>> the film >>> Day 3: Process the film and look at it. In many ways, they'd learn as much >>> just taking a roll of C41 B&W to walgreens, but I think that processing the >>> film would be a lot of fun. I'm specifically avoiding color film if we're >>> talking exposure. >>> Day 4: scan the negatives look at the results on a computer, and discuss. >>> Review using the histogram, how to set exposure and when to use >>> auto or manual exposure. Assignment, take pictures using both manual and >>> auto exposure >>> Day 5: review digital exposure homework. teach depth of field, manual >>> focus, auto focus, and when to use tripods to stop down and get more depth >>> of field at slower shutter speeds. >>> Day 6: color balance, grey cards, raw versus jpeg >>> >>> I don't care for the holga idea, it may be fun, but not as instructional on >>> a base level >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Larry Colen [email protected] sent from i4est >> > > -- > Larry Colen [email protected] (from dos4est) > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
