Paul's comment is thought provoking because with today's tools, it IS possible to do similar manipulations in color. The problem is that it is easy to push the "needle too far" and then people react negatively to the image (as in "not realistic", "photoshopped", "oversharpened", etc.). That in itself indicates (to me) that we are wired to treat color images as representative of "reality" and if we go beyond a certain point in post-processin most of us will object to the image as "faked" or "unrealistic". It doesn't seem to me that (other than solarization or other "radical" treatments in B&W) that monochrome images have that same "baggage" to contend with, even though they may be manipulated as AA did in the darkroom.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Jack Davis <[email protected]> wrote: > I agree, Ann. I imagine his dramatic style had a bit to do with the "vivid > landscape" choice in the B&W converter. > > Jack > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 1:18 PM > Subject: Re: OT: Ansel Adams 1983 BBC interview (1 year before his death) > > > One thing I found really fascinating in the video, Ansel often boosted the > contrast way up. Especially on his most well-known photos. If he had done > that in color it would have been immediately noticeable. > > In other words, he was a Photoshopper well before there was a Photoshop. > > So, yes, Rob he probably would have loved digital. > > Marnie aka Doe :-) > > In a message dated 4/16/2013 12:24:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > There's a lot of converstation going on between your ears, John, that > didn't come out of my mouth. I shoot color. If I were disparaging > anyone I would have to include myself as one who needed to be > disparaged. But that's not what I'm doing. Occasionally I find an > image that I think would look better in B&W and I'm generally pleased > with the results and often prefer it to the color version. > > My point was that Ansel Adam's B&W imagery made him an icon. He chose > the same subject matter for his color work. Is there really anyone > among us who look at those color images of his and think they are head > and shoulders above anything you have seen elsewhere? Or that he would > have become an icon if he had only his color work to show? > > There is a reason that the colorizing > of black and white films bothers > people. A lot of people. It is because there is a different aesthetic > at work in black and white. Ansel himself refers to it as an > interpretation of reality (whereas color photography is mostly just > reality). Sometimes reality is impressive enough - one reason that > cliches like sunrises/sunsets are so enjoyable to us. Few would claim > that a sunset in black & white is going to have more impact than the > color version. > > It has nothing to do with being inferior. Take any of those color > images of Ansel Adams and convert it to B&W (applying Adam's Zone > System for best dynamic range) and ask 100 people which image has more > gravitas and I guarantee you that the majority of those who understand > the meaning of the word will choose the B&W. That's all I'm saying, > and you are free to disagree or to get > any degree of frostburn they > would like by extrapolating from my comments, rather than just taking > them at face value. > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:06 PM, John Francis <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I disagree, too. >> >> But what really frosts me about the statement is the implicit >> arrogance that assumes anyone who generally prefers colour to >> B&W images is just plain wrong, and an inferior being incapable >> of appreciating the true value of the work. >> >> If you like B&W images, fine. But it should be possible for >> you to enjoy them without disparaging those who don't. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 02:54:45PM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: >>> Two words: Afghan Girl. >>> >>> IOW, I disagree. :-) >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Darren Addy <[email protected]> > wrote: >>> > Ansel's color images are nice enough but they illustrate, in a way >>> > that few other things can, how color images can never have the >>> > gravitas of a good B&W image. >>> > >>> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Zos Xavius <[email protected]> > wrote: >>> >> http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1932762,00.html >>> >> >>> >> worth a look! >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at > 11:41 AM, George Sinos <[email protected]> > wrote: >>> >>> A few years ago there was an exhibit of various photographers work > at >>> >>> the local museum. Several 8x10 color transparencies were on display >>> >>> (Kodachrome, if I remember correctly.) They were on a large light >>> >>> table, back lit, of course. >>> >>> >>> >>> I was surprised to see that were Adam's work. gs >>> >>> George Sinos >>> >>> -------------------- >>> >>> www.GeorgesPhotos.net >>> >>> www.GeorgeSinos.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I had the same thought. But since he preferred B&W, he probably > would have >>> >>>> found the first digital cameras disappointing for B&W. Although > he did >>> >>>> shoot some in color too. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Marnie aka Doe I really got a lot ouf of the interview. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> In a message dated 4/15/2013 4:38:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >>> >>>> [email protected] writes: >>> >>>> He could see the potential in digital image capture even at that > early >>> >>>> stage, one wonders what amazing work he could have produced with > the >>> >>>> new medium. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) >>> >>>> Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours >>> >>>> Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> >>>> [email protected] >>> >>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > "Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art" - >>> > Peter Galassi >>> > >>> > -- >>> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> > [email protected] >>> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -bmw >>> >>> > -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> [email protected] >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> [email protected] >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > > > > -- > "Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art" - > Peter Galassi > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail > List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- "Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art" - Peter Galassi -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
