That's true, Bruce. I agree with you. I was comparing the old darkroom way of dodging & burning to the new way of doing the same thing with color images in digital. But you are certainly correct, you can dial monochrome digital images to "eleven" in post-processing also.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Bruce Walker <[email protected]> wrote: > I've seen a lot of B&W images lately that have that nasty, crispy, > overcooked-HDR look to them, so it's not only possible but being done. > We need to squint and move the sliders back and forth between > Zero-Effect and Yikes-OMG until we reach somewhere inside the > Happy-Medium point. > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Darren Addy <[email protected]> wrote: >> Paul's comment is thought provoking because with today's tools, it IS >> possible to do similar manipulations in color. The problem is that it >> is easy to push the "needle too far" and then people react negatively >> to the image (as in "not realistic", "photoshopped", "oversharpened", >> etc.). That in itself indicates (to me) that we are wired to treat >> color images as representative of "reality" and if we go beyond a >> certain point in post-processin most of us will object to the image as >> "faked" or "unrealistic". It doesn't seem to me that (other than >> solarization or other "radical" treatments in B&W) that monochrome >> images have that same "baggage" to contend with, even though they may >> be manipulated as AA did in the darkroom. >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Jack Davis <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I agree, Ann. I imagine his dramatic style had a bit to do with the "vivid >>> landscape" choice in the B&W converter. >>> >>> Jack >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 1:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: OT: Ansel Adams 1983 BBC interview (1 year before his death) >>> >>> >>> One thing I found really fascinating in the video, Ansel often boosted the >>> contrast way up. Especially on his most well-known photos. If he had done >>> that in color it would have been immediately noticeable. >>> >>> In other words, he was a Photoshopper well before there was a Photoshop. >>> >>> So, yes, Rob he probably would have loved digital. >>> >>> Marnie aka Doe :-) >>> >>> In a message dated 4/16/2013 12:24:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >>> [email protected] writes: >>> There's a lot of converstation going on between your ears, John, that >>> didn't come out of my mouth. I shoot color. If I were disparaging >>> anyone I would have to include myself as one who needed to be >>> disparaged. But that's not what I'm doing. Occasionally I find an >>> image that I think would look better in B&W and I'm generally pleased >>> with the results and often prefer it to the color version. >>> >>> My point was that Ansel Adam's B&W imagery made him an icon. He chose >>> the same subject matter for his color work. Is there really anyone >>> among us who look at those color images of his and think they are head >>> and shoulders above anything you have seen elsewhere? Or that he would >>> have become an icon if he had only his color work to show? >>> >>> There is a reason that the colorizing >>> of black and white films bothers >>> people. A lot of people. It is because there is a different aesthetic >>> at work in black and white. Ansel himself refers to it as an >>> interpretation of reality (whereas color photography is mostly just >>> reality). Sometimes reality is impressive enough - one reason that >>> cliches like sunrises/sunsets are so enjoyable to us. Few would claim >>> that a sunset in black & white is going to have more impact than the >>> color version. >>> >>> It has nothing to do with being inferior. Take any of those color >>> images of Ansel Adams and convert it to B&W (applying Adam's Zone >>> System for best dynamic range) and ask 100 people which image has more >>> gravitas and I guarantee you that the majority of those who understand >>> the meaning of the word will choose the B&W. That's all I'm saying, >>> and you are free to disagree or to get >>> any degree of frostburn they >>> would like by extrapolating from my comments, rather than just taking >>> them at face value. >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:06 PM, John Francis <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I disagree, too. >>>> >>>> But what really frosts me about the statement is the implicit >>>> arrogance that assumes anyone who generally prefers colour to >>>> B&W images is just plain wrong, and an inferior being incapable >>>> of appreciating the true value of the work. >>>> >>>> If you like B&W images, fine. But it should be possible for >>>> you to enjoy them without disparaging those who don't. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 02:54:45PM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: >>>>> Two words: Afghan Girl. >>>>> >>>>> IOW, I disagree. :-) >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Darren Addy <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>> > Ansel's color images are nice enough but they illustrate, in a way >>>>> > that few other things can, how color images can never have the >>>>> > gravitas of a good B&W image. >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Zos Xavius <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>> >> http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1932762,00.html >>>>> >> >>>>> >> worth a look! >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at >>> 11:41 AM, George Sinos <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>> A few years ago there was an exhibit of various photographers work >>> at >>>>> >>> the local museum. Several 8x10 color transparencies were on display >>>>> >>> (Kodachrome, if I remember correctly.) They were on a large light >>>>> >>> table, back lit, of course. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> I was surprised to see that were Adam's work. gs >>>>> >>> George Sinos >>>>> >>> -------------------- >>>>> >>> www.GeorgesPhotos.net >>>>> >>> www.GeorgeSinos.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>> I had the same thought. But since he preferred B&W, he probably >>> would have >>>>> >>>> found the first digital cameras disappointing for B&W. Although >>> he did >>>>> >>>> shoot some in color too. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Marnie aka Doe I really got a lot ouf of the interview. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> In a message dated 4/15/2013 4:38:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >>>>> >>>> [email protected] writes: >>>>> >>>> He could see the potential in digital image capture even at that >>> early >>>>> >>>> stage, one wonders what amazing work he could have produced with >>> the >>>>> >>>> new medium. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>>> >>>> Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) >>>>> >>>> Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours >>>>> >>>> Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>>> >>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>> and follow the directions. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> -- >>>>> >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>> >>> [email protected] >>>>> >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>> and follow the directions. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- >>>>> >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>> >> [email protected] >>>>> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>> and follow the directions. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > "Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art" - >>>>> > Peter Galassi >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>> > [email protected] >>>>> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>> and follow the directions. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -bmw >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art" - >>> Peter Galassi >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail >>> List >>> [email protected] >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> [email protected] >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> [email protected] >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >> >> >> >> -- >> "Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art" - >> Peter Galassi >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> [email protected] >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > > -- > -bmw > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- "Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art" - Peter Galassi -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
