Gary R., List: GR: While comparisons between Peirce’s semiosis and complex adaptive systems might prove illuminating, it seems to me crucial not to frame semiosis as a bottom-up process.
Not surprisingly, I agree with this, as well as your other comments. Moreover, while the universe is *obviously *a complex system, it cannot possibly be a complex *adaptive* system because it does not exist within an environment to which it is constantly *adapting*. For those who like to consult LLMs on this sort of thing--I have expressed my own reservations about them previously--here is some of what Google's "AI Overview" had to say about this. Q: Does a complex adaptive system require an external environment to which it adapts? A: Yes, a complex adaptive system (CAS) requires an environment to which it adapts, but this relationship is not one-way; the system and its environment are in a constant, co-evolutionary relationship. The "environment" includes both external factors and the internal interactions of the system's components. Adaptation occurs in response to changes in this context, leading to emergent behaviors that cannot be predicted from the system's components alone. Q: Can a complex adaptive system exist without an external environment to which it adapts? A: No, a complex adaptive system (CAS) cannot exist without an external environment to which it adapts. Adaptation is defined as a system changing its behavior or internal structure in response to its environment to improve its performance or survival. Without an environment to respond to, there is nothing for the system to adapt to, which removes the "adaptive" quality entirely. Q: Is the universe as a whole a complex adaptive system? A: There is no scientific consensus on whether the universe as a whole is a complex adaptive system (CAS). While the universe exhibits many qualities of a CAS, the question remains a subject of ongoing debate in physics and philosophy. ... Complex adaptive systems, by definition, require an external environment with which to exchange energy and information. This raises the question of whether the universe can be truly "adaptive" in the same way an ant colony or ecosystem can. ... Critics suggest that adaptation is a local phenomenon that occurs within specific subsystems of the universe, such as biological evolution on Earth. The universe itself may not be adaptive, even though it contains adaptive subsystems. There is no context *outside* the universe that changes, thus prompting it to adapt in response. On the other hand, there are certainly complex adaptive systems--physical, social, economic, cultural, etc.--operating *within *the universe. In any case, the validity of characterizing the *entire *universe as a complex *adaptive *system is hardly the settled matter that some have made it out to be. Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Sat, Oct 25, 2025 at 4:38 PM Gary Richmond <[email protected]> wrote: > List, > > While comparisons between Peirce’s semiosis and complex adaptive systems > might prove illuminating, it seems to me crucial not to frame semiosis as a > bottom-up process. Peirce’s 3ns introduces top-down guidance through law > and habit just as fundamentally as 1ns introduces spontaneity and 2ns > enforces brute action-reaction. Removing that balance collapses semiosis > into a dyadic-materialist mechanism. > > Similarly, presenting the telos of semiosis as energy preservation leans > toward thermodynamic determinism, whereas Peirce saw the universe evolving > toward the growth of concrete reasonableness, that is, increasing > embodiment of habit and intelligibility. > > Terminologically, describing the sign relation (O-S-I) as an “information > unit” borrows from Shannon and implies an input-output model foreign to > Peirce’s irreducible triadic mediation. > > Finally, the categories are not “components” of a process but modes of > being that structure *all* process and relation. >
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