Clark wrote in response to my statement (091114-1) below that

  "DNA stands for (phenotypes of living cells) for people."   (091214-1)

Which I agree with.  But the point Clark seems to be missing is the fact that

"DNA stands for phenotypes for living cells as well."         (091214-2)


The truth of (091214-2) is evident because cells have been reading DNA
long before we humans appeared on this planet (in fact we would not be
here if cells could not read DNA) and long before the 20th century when
humans discovered this fact.

With all the best.

Sung
___________________________________________________
Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology
Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy
Rutgers University
Piscataway, N.J. 08855
732-445-4701

www.conformon.net


>
>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Sungchul Ji <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I agree.  “Z stands for X for Y” would be an example of smiosis.  A
>> concrete example of this would be
>>
>>
>> “DNA stands for phenotypes for living cells.”            (091114-1)
>
>
> If I understand him correctly, I don’t think that would count as an
> example. While I don’t want to speak for Frederik, I suspect he’d say
> properly that is
>
>       DNA stands for (phenotypes of living cells) for people
>
> So there’d be indexical relationships between phenotypes and parts of
> DNA but that stands for would be on the human side. (Assuming I have your
> example correct - apologies if I’m misreading you)
>
> I think he wants something more like
>
>       Mice have eyes to see
>
> There we could break that down as
>
>       eyes -> seeing for mice
>
> What Frederik is getting at is that “for mice” or “to mice” is
> possible in biology but there’s nothing equivalent in physics. The
> “for” is always “for humans” or more accurately “for physicists
> thinking about this." Now as I quibbled I think observers play an abstract
> role in both QM and GR. As such it’s quite possible to treat observers
> as a general (in the Peircean sense) that allows the phenomena to change.
> (Collapse of the wave function not being tied merely to human observers,
> for example) However I think nearly all physicists see that as an
> artifact. That is most see it as at best an embarrassment of the way we
> speak about it and at worse an highly unlikely interpretation.
>
> I do think that this distinction between “what’s really going on”
> and “what scientists think about it” leads to problems. (It’s an
> ambiguity that I think frequently plagues philosophy of science -
> especially naive discussions of physicalism) However ignoring that much
> more subtle issue I raised in my last post, I have to concede
> Frederick’s point. At best I think it possible physics will change in
> the future.
>
> I’m actually very sympathetic to getting rid of observer talk out of
> physics - I think it’s often a remnant of the neo-kantian approach to
> science from the early 20th century. Theory is often cast in an
> epistemological framework rather than an ontological/physical one. However
> I’m also quite open to it being impossible to get rid of - especially
> given my Peircean commitments regarding the universe being filled with
> mind.
>
>
>


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