Well, I guess I'm going to be a lone dissenter. But Ben N., I think you are 
doing an 'abductive' action on us, proposing a hypothesis that is, in my view, 
unsubstantiated. You declare, repeatedly, in your work that the dominance of 
Hitler's image - and his rise to power - is a 'mystery'. Is it? I don't think 
so. You write (in The Status of Hitler Today)...and I'll only reproduce a bit 
as my computer and your online text don't work well together!

"The second historical question also remains unanswered, and it is even more 
difficult and unsettling. How is it that we, both the historians and, indeed, 
all of us, have collaborated in 

Hitler’s greatest crime—by which I mean the continuing presence that this evil 
man still has in modern consciousness and his seizure of the post-Second World 
War historical imagination? The corollary to this question is: in allowing 
Hitler to become so prominent in our consciousness, are we not, criminally, 
vindicating his idea of history—his own personal 
Weltanschauung? Historians argue over hundreds of theories to explain him, 
unable to reach any convincing conclusion or to arrive at a consensus, while 
grinning specter of Hitler laughs at them from Hell, saying..."

------------------
I  disagree with your assertions - and I'll claim that they are, in themselves, 
'abductive hypotheses'...but...are not scientifically proven.  

First, the era of the Third Reich is still within our generational experience. 
We still know, some of us, survivors of the Camps, survivors of the war.  
Furthermore, it was one of the first that was documented, in film and text and 
records, as no other war, even the First World War, has been documented. And it 
usually takes at least 20-30 years for historians to begin to thoroughly 
examine history.  So, I don't think it is surprising that key books began 
later. For example, Shirer's monumental work, The Rise and Fall of the Third 
Reich was around 1960.

Second, as I've said, I think that your focus on Hitler as causal of the Third 
Reich, falls within the problematic historical analysis of the 'Great Man 
Theory'. The fact that the facial image of Hitler has become a 'pop culture' 
image isn't a mystery but a fact of reality. It's a very simple image (that 
moustache does it!) and, easy to 'morph' into a symbol. Just as other symbols 
are  simple - the heart, the pirate one-eye, etc.

Third, you don't seem to examine fascism at all; your bibliographies are very 
limited in that area - and the Third Reich was fascist and in my view, it is 
fascism that is the ground, the bedrock, of Nazism and Hitler.

Are there other Hitlers? That is, charismatic leaders that present utopian 
visions of a world to an adulatory public? Of course - and to think otherwise 
is to ignore the realm of politics. But is their power fascist? Ah - that's 
where things can be go in quite a different direction - for the power of 
fascism (or any utopian ideology) to become dominant in a society rests with 
other factors, - such as the economy, the power of the existing rule of law and 
government, influences from other economies and societies..etc.

Edwina

Ed

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ben Novak 
  To: Benjamin Udell 
  Cc: PEIRCE-L 
  Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:51 AM
  Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic


  Dear Ben U:


  Thank you for your many compliments to the readability of the dissertation. I 
particularly appreciate your likening it to a detective story, for that is 
precisely what I was aiming at, although in a treatise rather than a storyline 
narrative.


  In answer to several of your questions and observations, I offer you some 
other articles by me that have been published and are available on the 
internet. I think they will answer several of the questions raised by you, 
Edwina, and others:


  Hitler Studies: A Field of Amateurs (2006)
  https://www.academia.edu/8772015/Hitler_Studies_A_Field_of_Amateurs



  The Problem with Hitler: The Man Nobody Knows (2006)

  https://www.academia.edu/8772277/The_Problem_with_Hitler_The_Man_Nobody_Knows



  The Status of Hitler Today (2006)
  https://www.academia.edu/8772100/The_Status_of_Hitler_Today


  Best,
  Ben N.






  Ben Novak
  5129 Taylor Drive, Ave Maria, FL 34142
  Telephones: 

  Magic Jack: (717) 826-5224 Best to call and leave messages.

  Landline: 239-455-4200 My brother's main phone line.
  Mobile (202) 509-2655 I use this only on trips--and in any event messages 
arrive days late.
  Skype: BenNovak2


  "All art is mortal, not merely the individual artifacts, but the arts 
themselves. One day the last portrait of Rembrandt and the last bar of Mozart 
will have ceased to be — though possibly a colored canvas and a sheet of notes 
may remain — because the last eye and the last ear accessible to their message 
will have gone." Oswald Spengler



  On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Ben Novak <[email protected]> wrote:

    Dear Edwina:


    You have made a number of interesting points. Most of them have been 
addressed rather well by Ben Udell. But let me add a few points that I think 
will  be helpful to many others on the list.


    First, it is important that one read the book or dissertation, rather than 
for summarizing its salient points, for one main reason. The book involves the 
application of Peirce's theoretical structure of abduction to facts. Therefore, 
the book is not the presentation of a theory, whose salient points can be 
summarized and presented in bite-size form for others to critique in 
theoretical terms and argue over principles, definitions, and soundness of 
syllogisms. Rather, in this case, the "devil is in the details." 


    In this respect, I think that the work should be of particular interest to 
the members of Peirce-L precisely because it involves the messy world of facts, 
in other words, it is an experiment of seeing whether certain theories can 
actually explain certain facts. It is like the situation when a scientist 
claims to have established something by experimental methods; one must 
meticulously go over each step of the experiments to see whether the result 
holds.


    In this respect, Eco and Sebeok's The Sign of Three is very 
instructive.They wrote that book because their studies of Peirce had introduced 
them to several other scholars who noted the presence of Peirce's adductive 
logic in the stories of Edgar Allan Poe and Arthur Conan Doyle. They therefore 
set out to show how this form of logic pervades the work of these two giants of 
the detective story genre. In that case, in order to see if their premise 
holds, one must not only read Eco and Sebeok's book, but must also be familiar 
with the works of Poe and Doyle. A lot of work.


    Second, I don't think that I am making more of a mystery of Hitler than is 
warranted. Almost every major historian has shouted out that the facts of 
Hitler so far constitute a major mystery. That was the thesis  of Ron 
Rosenbaum' book, Explaining Hitler, which he boldly states: "Hitler has escaped 
explanation."


    I set out to deal with one part of the Hitler mystery, specifically, what 
there was about him that enabled him to succeed. It seemed that simply to say 
he was lucky is not an explanation. First because he was the most unlikely of 
people to have any success in politics. He was a high school dropout, a denizen 
of the poor houses of Vienna, had shown no signs of leadership through four 
years of war in which any sign of leadership was sought to replace the high 
mortality of line officers. More importantly, however, one must keep in mind 
that he was not a citizen, and could neither vote nor hold office. 


    Finally, he built up his political movement from scratch not once, but 
twice.He took the tiny DAP from a stammtisch organization and built it into the 
largest force in Bavaria in four years. Then came the Putsch, and he was 
imprisoned, the party declared illegal and all its assets seized, and he was 
convicted of treason. No one believed that he could be any further trouble. But 
he said he could be back on top in a few years, and within five years after he 
was released, he was the leader of the second largest party in Germany. To say 
it was luck alone is to believe that lightning strikes twice in the same 
place....


    This brings up another fact that is disconcerting. Many people believe that 
Hitler succeeded because of his oratory. But he built up his party the second 
time under a complete ban on public speaking, effectively from November 1923 
till spring of 1927 in Bavaria, and until 1928 throughout the rest of 
Germany,during which he gave only one public speech in February 1925, which is 
the speech that got him banned again from public speaking. Yet his party grew 
by leaps and bounds during this period from a party of one, to 49,000 
dues-paying members in 1927, and to 78,000 members and almost 3 percent of the 
vote in 1928. This calls out for explanation.


    (Understand that in Germany at this time, one did not register for a party 
as we do in the US when one registers to vote. Every German was automatically 
registered, but one had to actually go to Party headquarters to join, and that 
meant paying dues and being required to perform organizing services. So, 
building an army of 49,000 dues-paying, hard working election organizers in two 
years was no small thing. My point it that this was done when Hitler was 
forbidden to give public speeches, so it cannot  be because of his oratory.)


    Well, my point is that this process has not been explained. My book offers 
to provide at least one part of an explanation.


    Again, I agree with you that this is different from the usual discussion on 
Pierce-L where abstract issues can be discussed. My original announcement was 
simply that there was now a book trying to apply Peirce's theory of abduction 
to an historical event, with the idea that people on the list might be 
interested to know that. Of course, I hoped that someone would actually  read 
it and critique it. But if you choose not to read it, that is a fair choice.


    Thanks for responding,


    Ben








































    Ben Novak
    5129 Taylor Drive, Ave Maria, FL 34142
    Telephones: 

    Magic Jack: (717) 826-5224 Best to call and leave messages.

    Landline: 239-455-4200 My brother's main phone line.
    Mobile (202) 509-2655 I use this only on trips--and in any event messages 
arrive days late.
    Skype: BenNovak2


    "All art is mortal, not merely the individual artifacts, but the arts 
themselves. One day the last portrait of Rembrandt and the last bar of Mozart 
will have ceased to be — though possibly a colored canvas and a sheet of notes 
may remain — because the last eye and the last ear accessible to their message 
will have gone." Oswald Spengler



    On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Benjamin Udell <[email protected]> wrote:

      Tom, yes, this is the kind of thing where I speak of rephrasing. Fresh 
from a first reading of 3/4 of the thesis, my impression was that Ben N. was 
attributing more originality to Hitler than seems established. Still I think 
Ben N. is on to something. Mainstream German politicians were offering 
practical programs, while Hitler was offering a Big Explanation of Everything 
and avoiding proposing solutions to particular problems.


      Best, Ben U.


      On 7/9/2015 11:15 PM, Ozzie wrote:

        Ben ~

        Thanks for your helpful summary ("Ben N. is saying that Hitler was the 
first leader to invite the public to follow a pattern of abductive inference 
like in a detective story ...")

        Both for sport and to attain positions of leadership, Greek orators at 
the time of the Peloponnesian Wars invited the general public to form, accept 
and act on abducted hypotheses. The logical tales spun by Hitler were based 
upon resentment, which places him among the demagogues.

        Regards -

        Tom Wyrick

        On Jul 9, 2015, at 8:37 PM, Benjamin Udell wrote:

          Edwina, Ben N., list,


          I've been reading the online version of Ben N.'s thesis. I found that 
I could not save it to my computer without first opening it online, and in 
order to save it computer, one has to move one's mouse over some buttons in the 
upper right-hand corner of the view pane till a little tool tip says 
"Download".  I'm convinced that visual design of computer programs these days 
is largely done by sadists. 

          Anyway, I've been reading it, it's two PDFs, and I'm half-way through 
the second one. It really is very readable, and that involvement of Hitler does 
add a certain electric current to the discussion of abductive inference. It's 
not a labor to read, and it's quite interesting. There are a number of 
technical errors (as Ben N. warns) evident to a Peirce scholar, but these can 
be corrected without damaging the thesis.


          In response to Edwina, I'd say that Ben N. does not present Hitler's 
rise as having a magical or mystical element, rather a mysterious element that 
requires explanation. He makes a case that many scholars think that there are 
some very difficult questions as to who Hitler was and how did he get so far. 
I'm no historian and hadn't read a book on Hitler since I was a teenager. So 
far, I'd say that the case is not made clear enough to the general reader that 
Hitler didn't just get lucky in the sense that some party had to come out on 
top or, in the classic formulation, "somebody has to be the king of France." 
Ben N. outlines some argument that luck wasn't such a big part of it, but it's 
not clear to me yet. On the other hand, I don't think that Ben N. is relying on 
a "Great Men" theory of history - he says that Hitler might have made very 
little difference in other times and circumstances.


          Insofar as everybody uses abductive inference, Ben N. perhaps doesn't 
bring out clearly enough the difference between Hitler's use of it and others' 
use of it, instead he talks about how Hitler was the first leader to use it. I 
think I know what Ben N. is getting at, but I'd phrase it more carefully. Ben 
N. is saying that Hitler was the first leader to invite the public to follow a 
pattern of abductive inference like in a detective story (Who Murdered 
Germany?), and that Hitler relied for credibility on the justificatory 
plausibility and complex cohesion of an untested hypothesis that would take a 
long time to verify. Well, there's more to it, which it would be foolish of me 
to try to summarize. I'd ask, is Ben N. so sure that Hitler was the first such 
leader? Many other regimes have 'explanations' that they give to their people, 
sometimes involving the idea of hidden forces behind events.


          Anyway, I'm enjoying reading it. One can certainly say that Ben Novak 
has made a serious effort, deserving of more attention than what some rather 
pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey stuff has received occasionally on peirce-l.


          Best, Ben 


          On 7/9/2015 7:12 PM, Edwina Taborsky wrote:

            Ben, I'm going to disagree with your view that in order to discuss 
the basic issue of your book, namely, your attempt to correlate the rise of 
Hitler with abductive logic - that it requires that we either buy your book or 
read it.

            I think that on a Peirce-list, the members ought to have a 
reasonable reading knowledge of Peirce's works, but I don't think that a 
research topic dealt with by a member requires that members of this list read 
that member's work. My view is that it is incumbent on YOU, to provide members 
with a reasonably thorough precis of the salient points of your argument.


            With regard to the points you have so far provided, my concern is 
that you seem to be trying to imbue Hitler's rise to power with some 'magical' 
or mystical element. 

            For example, you claim that when his party took power, German 
politics consisted of 28 parties - why was Hitler's dominant? In Canada, at the 
federal level, there are 26 political parties - and there is nothing 
particularly magical or surprising that only three are dominant. There are 
about 30 minor political parties in the US. Only two-three are dominant. 

            Second, my concern is your method of explaining this history. You 
seem to be using what is known as the 'Great Man Theory' of historical 
analysis, which examines history by focusing on the charisma or whatever of 
some singular causal individual. I consider this a weak analytic frame; I 
prefer the 'long duree' framework of the 'Annales' school (eg, Braudel), which 
considers infrastructural causality such as the population size, economic mode, 
technological capacity, trade relations etc...rather than individuals.

            As for fascism, it is an ideology of the mind, i.e., it is not 
rooted in pragmatic reality but in a notion of utopian purity of the past, such 
that 'if only we returned to that pure mode', then, all would be well. It is 
now rampant in the Al Qaeda (from the 19th c!) and ISIS of the MENA. There are, 
I maintain, population and economic reasons for the refusal of these 
populations and governments to deal with the pragmatic problems of the area and 
the  resultant retreat into fascism.

            Same with Germany of the 1930s. And, once an infrastructure is set 
up, e,g, National Socialism's Third Reich, it is extremely difficult to move 
out of the rhetoric and back down to hard reality. That requires an external 
intervention. Certainly, internally, some tried to stop Hitler - 

            As for Hitler being logical - what??? I think some examples would 
be helpful. His behaviour around Stalingrad was hardly logical. 

            Is the popularity of various cult figures, of wealthy preachers, of 
 due to their being logical? Or for some other reason(s)?

            What is abductive about Hitler's 'reasoning'?

            Again, my view - and I say it is my view - is that the onus for 
explanation of a topic is not to have readers buy your book or read it online, 
but for you to explain key points to us - and then, explain why you align it 
with Peircean theory.

            Edwina

            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Ben Novak 
            To: Stephen Jarosek 
            Cc: Stephen C. Rose ; Peirce List 
            Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 5:12 PM
            Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive 
Logic




      -----------------------------
      PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with 
the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .












------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  -----------------------------
  PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with 
the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .




-----------------------------
PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L 
to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . To 
UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the 
line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .




Reply via email to