Edwina -
I do consider Herr Hitler unique and likely skilled in certain things.  It's 
just that his uniqueness would not have catapulted him to the top a "normally 
functioning" society.  He was a man of and for his times.  The same could 
probably be said of most leaders who gain office during a major crisis.  

I think the historical lesson from the Hitler experience is that it is risky to 
humiliate a nation and stand by while its people sink deeper into poverty, with 
no hope in sight.  Such people will follow a Hitler, an Osama or another 
violent demagogue. Eventually one will come along. 

Regards, 

Tom Wyrick 



> On Jul 10, 2015, at 2:09 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Tom- I fully agree. I don't 'buy into' what I see as any romanticism of 
> Hitler that sees his rise as 'special' or 'a mystery'. Or that sees fascism 
> as dependent on a charismatic leader. And I don't accept the notion that the 
> German people and their history in itself had anything to do with the rise of 
> German fascism [this is a critique of the Sonderweg theory that Germany had a 
> particular propensity for fascism]. That is - given the situation of economic 
> depression, national isolation and a societal 'black hole' (no future for a 
> middle class), it could happen elsewhere. And as we see in Islamic fascism, 
> it isn't simply a reaction to failed democracy but to failed governments and 
> economies.  
>  
> There were many who did not support Hitler, both among the ordinary middle 
> class and certainly, among the old nobility. But his imposition of a brutal 
> military dictatorship, run outside any rule of law, and thus, run by thugs, 
> isolated dissent and criticism. And we shouldn't ignore the conflict with 
> communism as an 'alternative' to fascism - this debate was vital at the time.
>  
> Right - the division of German into East and West didn't help Germany or 
> Europe; the impoverishment of the East is still quite something to see when 
> you cross the border between the two.
>  
> Edwina
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ozzie
> To: Edwina Taborsky
> Cc: Helmut Raulien ; <[email protected]> ; Peirce List
> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic
> 
> I believe that a society's shared beliefs are the outcome of a competitive 
> evolutionary process, where "the environment" rewards/favors certain traits 
> and punishes/rejects others.  In this analysis Hitler is a "random variation" 
> of nature, and in some environments he would have been in jail, while in 
> others he would be elected dictator, etc.  Every society has numerous 
> demagogues who would be dangerous if given the opportunity, and many of those 
> are silver-tongued speakers. 
> 
> This way of modeling the issue returns the focus to a question raised earlier 
> by Edwina: What characterized German society in the 1920's, 1930's and 1940's 
> that made it susceptible to the message of a Hitler-type leader?  Most 
> historians believe resentments following WW1 reparations, the crushing impact 
> and distraction of the Great Depression, and disarmament by other nations 
> played a decisive role in creating that climate.  In that setting Hitler rose 
> to power, but if there had been no Hitler some other extremist leader/group 
> would likely have gained widespread support.  
> 
> According to this view, Hitler's "specialness" is the set of idiosyncratic 
> talents that set him above other would-be dictators he competed with for 
> power.  Perhaps his abduction-type message is a big part of that success.  
> Yet,nwe do not credit Hitler for the larger environmental effects that set 
> the scene for a German dictator.  
> 
> This, I believe, represents the general view of most historians and US    
> foreign policy makers.  They believed that by not imposing punishing 
> reparations after WW2 and helping Germany rebuild its economy, ordinary 
> German citizens would no longer support another Hitler, even though other 
> demagogues are available if called upon.  Many of Germany's closest 
> neighbors, including the USSR, were not persuaded of that, however, and 
> sought instead to prevent Germany from becoming aggressive again (presumably 
> behind another Hitler) by dividing and weakening that nation.  
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Tom Wyrick 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 10, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Helmut - if you use the scientific method and lie about your data and 
>> conclusions then, you are NOT using the scientific method.
>>  
>> Hitler used all three fallacious (and common to us all) methods of 'fixing 
>> belief'. The a priori emotional pure visceral appeal to the romantic 
>> idealism of the pure volk, the tenacity of repetition about the economic and 
>> political crisis of the time and the sense that Germans were victims; the 
>> tenacity of assurance that such a pure volk exists and the 'authority' of 
>> the past and the romanticism of the past heroes and era, and the yes, 
>> romanticism of violence - and  eventually, of course, pure military and 
>> outside-of-the law authority.
>>  
>> Nothing scientific at all about fascism or Hitler's political tactics.
>>  
>> Edwina
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Helmut Raulien
>> To: [email protected]
>> Cc: Edwina Taborsky ; Peirce List
>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 12:50 PM
>> Subject: Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic
>> 
>> Now I am wondering, which of the four methods of fixating belief did Hitler 
>> use? According to Ben Novak it is like this, I think: He was tenacious, but 
>> that is not the main point. He used authority, but that is not the main 
>> point either. Also he took advantage of apriorian ituition and instincts, 
>> but neither that is the main point. The main point is, that he used the 
>> scientific method, but not in a proper, but in a mendacious way. And it is 
>> scary how it was working, how a false abduction is able to immunize itself 
>> against contradictions. So I think, that Ben N., by showing this mendacios 
>> mechanism, has contributed much to making the scientific method more secure. 
>> Edwina wrote about sweeping generalizations, which dont stand up to 
>> scientific scrutiny, but are widely believed. Perhaps people believe it, 
>> because they do not have the means or the energy for scientific scrutiny, 
>> and want to believe something. But if they would know about this mendacious 
>> mechanism, maybe they would stop to think before believing. The fact, that 
>> this mechanism exists, is not a proof against any conspiracy theory, but an 
>> abduction in this respect. But that does not matter, because if one 
>> abduction can make people believe, another abduction can keep them from 
>> believing the first, possibly false abduction.
>> Best,
>> Helmut
>>  
>> 
>>  "Stephen C. Rose" <[email protected]>
>>  
>> The fact that we disagree on the way things are is encouraging as I think we 
>> agree more than you might perceive on many basics. We have had different 
>> life experiences And nothing I suggest ever is more than about a degree or 
>> two removed from things that would contradict. Above all I believe in the 
>> power of conversation along with what I understand to be continuity and 
>> fallibility.
>>  
>> Books http://buff.ly/15GfdqU Art: http://buff.ly/1wXAxbl 
>> Gifts: http://buff.ly/1wXADj3
>>  
>>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> 
>>> wrote:
>>> Well, Stephen Rose, you are more 'rosy-viewing' than I am. I don't think 
>>> that the scientific method is any more secure now than in the past. Nor do 
>>> I see a general reduction in violence or poverty.  Instead, I see an 
>>> increase in a sense of entitlement (which is utopian in itself!) and 
>>> sweeping generalizations about eg, the climate, diseases, and so on - which 
>>> don't stand up to scientific scrutiny but are widely believed.
>>>  
>>> Edwina
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Stephen C. Rose
>>> To: Edwina Taborsky
>>> Cc: Peirce List
>>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 11:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic
>>>  
>>> And scientific method's hold on the present is more secure than in the past 
>>> and there are arguments to suggest that there is a factual basis for 
>>> assuming both a general reduction of violence and a reduction of poverty. 
>>> Certainly both of these positives have been denoted utopian in the past, 
>>> but they should become more and more subject to the very method Peirce 
>>> venerated. Merely because Peirce adduced three modes of error does not 
>>> substantiate their capacity to overcome one mode which constitutes truth. 
>>>  
>>> Books http://buff.ly/15GfdqU Art: http://buff.ly/1wXAxbl 
>>> Gifts: http://buff.ly/1wXADj3
>>>  
>>>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Utopianism, which is an imaginary perfection of life, is basic to the 
>>>> human imagination. You can see that in our fictional tales - whether from 
>>>> Homer to fairy tales to romance novels to Batman films to James Bond to 
>>>> our political and economic ideas of the current era. 
>>>>  
>>>> But fascism isn't the only type of utopianism. The other main type is 
>>>> socialism, which is equally focused on 'everyone behaving the same'. The 
>>>> difference from fascism is that socialism focuses on a future ideal, while 
>>>> fascism focuses on a past ideal (as in the pure volk of Germany and also, 
>>>> of current Islamic fascism)....and socialism focuses on a future state (if 
>>>> we all share everything and all have the same amount of wealth...).
>>>>  
>>>> We are, as humans, all subject to hate, irrationality, mob behaviour and 
>>>> susceptibility to false promises. We've seen that in every nation on 
>>>> earth- and that includes our own and in recent times. Therefore - we are 
>>>> not 'condemned to repeat the past' for this behaviour is never confined to 
>>>> our past. We are condemned to be aware that irrationality is a basic 
>>>> emotional capacity in ourselves. There is only one scientific method, but 
>>>> there are three methods of irrational belief in Peirce's work.
>>>>  
>>>> Edwina
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Stephen C. Rose
>>>> To: Edwina Taborsky ; Peirce List
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:18 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic
>>>>  
>>>> All Edwina says is fine. My only caveat is that the tendency of what she 
>>>> calls utopianism (that assumption needs some proving I think) is not 
>>>> necessarily in a fascist direction. Fascism requires what she suggests -- 
>>>> a sort of blindness to reality. It's result is hate, irrationality, mob 
>>>> behavior and susceptibility to false promises. I believe that because of 
>>>> what Peirce rightly put together we can achieve incremental progress by 
>>>> means of reasonable moves forward. Based on a growing body of evidence. I 
>>>> do not as I have said before believe that we are condemned to repeat the 
>>>> past.  
>>>>  
>>>> Books http://buff.ly/15GfdqU Art: http://buff.ly/1wXAxbl 
>>>> Gifts: http://buff.ly/1wXADj3
>>>>  
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Ben, thanks for your comments.
>>>>>  
>>>>> With regard to the use of such terms as 'mystery, magical, and luck' when 
>>>>> referring to the rise of Hitler, I consider them all similar in that they 
>>>>> suggest some non-factual or illogical causality to his rise. My point is 
>>>>> that such explanations are, of course, not explanations and that Hitler's 
>>>>> rise to power - as well as that of any demagogue - is explicable. And - 
>>>>> it can happen again and elsewhere.
>>>>>  
>>>>> In Canada, and I imagine in other countries, one does not register to 
>>>>> vote, and need not register for nor belong to any political party. Voting 
>>>>> 'registration' is primarily but not solely via taxation information.
>>>>>  
>>>>> As for the rise of Hitler, as a nationalist fanatic, racist and 
>>>>> demagogue, (see his autobiography written at a young age!) ; i.e., his 
>>>>> conversion as a fascist, one can see in his early education and life (Wm. 
>>>>> Shirer The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich) his personal movement into 
>>>>> this ideology. I think the real focus is on the rise of fascism;  it was 
>>>>> by no means foreign to the German/Austrian sentiments of the time. (eg, 
>>>>> 1913 in Vienna). ; See W. Shirer and see also R. Eatwell: Fascism, a 
>>>>> History; and R. Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich; and R. Paxton, The 
>>>>> Anatomy of Fascism. See also a discussion by Jean B. Elshtain, 
>>>>> 'Sovereignty: God, State and Self. ). I'd consider that F. Hayek's 'The 
>>>>> Road to Serfdom', another examination of how and why people move into a 
>>>>> utopian ideology.
>>>>>  
>>>>> How could a majority of a population move into fascism, the utopian 
>>>>> ideology of a perfect volk...with its primordial, pure Will which, as 
>>>>> pure to the volk, must triumph. We see fascism in the preachings of 
>>>>> various political leaders of the current era both here and in other 
>>>>> countries. And people listen to and accept it! The question then becomes 
>>>>> - what is the critical threshold when fascism becomes dominant and drowns 
>>>>> out/prevents other discourse and the voice of established law and ongoing 
>>>>> critical reason?  We see, in Germany, its rise due to many 'leaders' - 
>>>>> not just Hitler.
>>>>>  
>>>>> And then, we must acknowledge that fascism is not unique to one era and 
>>>>> one man, but, we are all susceptible to a 'Fixation of Belief' by 
>>>>> irrational means.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Edwina
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Ben Novak
>>>>> To: Edwina Taborsky
>>>>> Cc: PEIRCE-L
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 8:56 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic
>>>>>  
>>>>> Dear Edwina:
>>>>>  
>>>>> You have made a number of interesting points. Most of them have been 
>>>>> addressed rather well by Ben Udell. But let me add a few points that I 
>>>>> think will  be helpful to many others on the list.
>>>>>  
>>>>> First, it is important that one read the book or dissertation, rather 
>>>>> than for summarizing its salient points, for one main reason. The book 
>>>>> involves the application of Peirce's theoretical structure of abduction 
>>>>> to facts. Therefore, the book is not the presentation of a theory, whose 
>>>>> salient points can be summarized and presented in bite-size form for 
>>>>> others to critique in theoretical terms and argue over principles, 
>>>>> definitions, and soundness of syllogisms. Rather, in this case, the 
>>>>> "devil is in the details." 
>>>>>  
>>>>> In this respect, I think that the work should be of particular interest 
>>>>> to the members of Peirce-L precisely because it involves the messy world 
>>>>> of facts, in other words, it is an experiment of seeing whether certain 
>>>>> theories can actually explain certain facts. It is like the situation 
>>>>> when a scientist claims to have established something by experimental 
>>>>> methods; one must meticulously go over each step of the experiments to 
>>>>> see whether the result holds.
>>>>>  
>>>>> In this respect, Eco and Sebeok's The Sign of Three is very 
>>>>> instructive.They wrote that book because their studies of Peirce had 
>>>>> introduced them to several other scholars who noted the presence of 
>>>>> Peirce's adductive logic in the stories of Edgar Allan Poe and Arthur 
>>>>> Conan Doyle. They therefore set out to show how this form of logic 
>>>>> pervades the work of these two giants of the detective story genre. In 
>>>>> that case, in order to see if their premise holds, one must not only read 
>>>>> Eco and Sebeok's book, but must also be familiar with the works of Poe 
>>>>> and Doyle. A lot of work.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Second, I don't think that I am making more of a mystery of Hitler than 
>>>>> is warranted. Almost every major historian has shouted out that the facts 
>>>>> of Hitler so far constitute a major mystery. That was the thesis  of Ron 
>>>>> Rosenbaum' book, Explaining Hitler, which he boldly states: "Hitler has 
>>>>> escaped explanation."
>>>>>  
>>>>> I set out to deal with one part of the Hitler mystery, specifically, what 
>>>>> there was about him that enabled him to succeed. It seemed that simply to 
>>>>> say he was lucky is not an explanation. First because he was the most 
>>>>> unlikely of people to have any success in politics. He was a high school 
>>>>> dropout, a denizen of the poor houses of Vienna, had shown no signs of 
>>>>> leadership through four years of war in which any sign of leadership was 
>>>>> sought to replace the high mortality of line officers. More importantly, 
>>>>> however, one must keep in mind that he was not a citizen, and could 
>>>>> neither vote nor hold office. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Finally, he built up his political movement from scratch not once, but 
>>>>> twice.He took the tiny DAP from a stammtisch organization and built it 
>>>>> into the largest force in Bavaria in four years. Then came the Putsch, 
>>>>> and he was imprisoned, the party declared illegal and all its assets 
>>>>> seized, and he was convicted of treason. No one believed that he could be 
>>>>> any further trouble. But he said he                    could be back on 
>>>>> top in a few years, and within five years after he was released, he was 
>>>>> the leader of the second largest party in Germany. To say it was luck 
>>>>> alone is to believe that lightning strikes twice in the same place....
>>>>>  
>>>>> This brings up another fact that is disconcerting. Many people believe 
>>>>> that Hitler succeeded because of his oratory. But he built up his party 
>>>>> the second time under a complete ban on public speaking, effectively from 
>>>>> November 1923 till spring of 1927 in Bavaria, and until 1928 throughout 
>>>>> the rest of Germany,during which he gave only one public speech in 
>>>>> February 1925, which is the speech that got him banned again from public 
>>>>> speaking. Yet his party grew by leaps and bounds during this period from 
>>>>> a party of one, to 49,000 dues-paying members in 1927, and to 78,000 
>>>>> members and almost 3 percent of the vote in 1928. This calls out for 
>>>>> explanation.
>>>>>  
>>>>> (Understand that in Germany at this time, one did not register for a 
>>>>> party as we do in the US when one registers to vote. Every German was 
>>>>> automatically registered, but one had to actually go to Party 
>>>>> headquarters to join, and that meant paying dues and being required to 
>>>>> perform organizing services. So, building an army of 49,000 dues-paying, 
>>>>> hard working election organizers in two years was no small thing. My 
>>>>> point it that this was done when Hitler was forbidden to give public 
>>>>> speeches, so it cannot  be because of his oratory.)
>>>>>  
>>>>> Well, my point is that this process has not been explained. My book 
>>>>> offers to provide at least one part of an explanation.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Again, I agree with you that this is different from the usual discussion 
>>>>> on Pierce-L where abstract issues can be discussed. My original 
>>>>> announcement was simply that there was now a book trying to apply 
>>>>> Peirce's theory of abduction to an historical event, with the idea that 
>>>>> people on the list might be interested to know that. Of course, I hoped 
>>>>> that someone would actually  read it and critique it. But if you choose 
>>>>> not to read it, that is a fair choice.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Thanks for responding,
>>>>>  
>>>>> Ben
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> Ben Novak
>>>>> 5129 Taylor Drive, Ave Maria, FL 34142
>>>>> Telephones: 
>>>>> Magic Jack: (717) 826-5224 Best to call and leave messages.
>>>>> Landline: 239-455-4200 My brother's main phone line.
>>>>> Mobile (202) 509-2655 I use this only on trips--and in any event messages 
>>>>> arrive days late.
>>>>> Skype: BenNovak2
>>>>> 
>>>>> "All art is mortal, not merely the individual artifacts, but the arts 
>>>>> themselves. One day the last portrait of Rembrandt and the last bar of 
>>>>> Mozart will have ceased to be — though possibly a colored canvas and a 
>>>>> sheet of notes may remain — because the last eye and the last ear 
>>>>> accessible to their message will have gone." Oswald Spengler
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Benjamin Udell <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Tom, yes, this is the kind of thing where I speak of rephrasing. Fresh 
>>>>>> from a first reading of 3/4 of the thesis, my impression was that Ben N. 
>>>>>> was attributing more originality to Hitler than seems established. Still 
>>>>>> I think Ben N. is on to something. Mainstream German politicians were 
>>>>>> offering practical programs, while Hitler was offering a Big Explanation 
>>>>>> of Everything and avoiding proposing solutions to particular problems.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best, Ben U.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 7/9/2015 11:15 PM, Ozzie wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ben ~
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for your helpful summary ("Ben N. is saying that Hitler was the 
>>>>>> first leader to invite the public to follow a pattern of abductive 
>>>>>> inference like in a detective story ...")
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Both for sport and to attain positions of leadership, Greek orators at 
>>>>>> the time of the Peloponnesian Wars invited the general public to form, 
>>>>>> accept and act on abducted hypotheses. The logical tales spun by Hitler 
>>>>>> were based upon resentment, which places him among the demagogues.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Tom Wyrick
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 8:37 PM, Benjamin Udell wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Edwina, Ben N., list,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've been reading the online version of Ben N.'s thesis. I found that I 
>>>>>> could not save it to my computer without first opening it online, and in 
>>>>>> order to save it computer, one has to move one's mouse over some buttons 
>>>>>> in the upper right-hand corner of the view pane till a little tool tip 
>>>>>> says "Download".  I'm convinced that visual design of computer programs 
>>>>>> these days is largely done by sadists.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway, I've been reading it, it's two PDFs, and I'm half-way through 
>>>>>> the second one. It really is very readable, and that involvement of 
>>>>>> Hitler does add a certain electric current to the discussion of 
>>>>>> abductive inference. It's not a labor to read, and it's quite 
>>>>>> interesting. There are a number of technical errors (as Ben N. warns) 
>>>>>> evident to a Peirce scholar, but these can be corrected without damaging 
>>>>>> the thesis.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In response to Edwina, I'd say that Ben N. does not present Hitler's 
>>>>>> rise as having a magical or mystical element, rather a mysterious 
>>>>>> element that requires explanation. He makes a case that many scholars 
>>>>>> think that there are some very difficult questions as to who Hitler was 
>>>>>> and how did he get so far. I'm no historian and hadn't read a book on 
>>>>>> Hitler since I was a teenager. So far, I'd say that the case is not made 
>>>>>> clear enough to the general reader that Hitler didn't just get lucky in 
>>>>>> the sense that some party had to come out on top or, in the classic 
>>>>>> formulation, "somebody has to be the king of France." Ben N. outlines 
>>>>>> some argument that luck wasn't such a big part of it, but it's not clear 
>>>>>> to me yet. On the other hand, I don't think that Ben N. is relying on a 
>>>>>> "Great Men" theory of history - he says that Hitler might have made very 
>>>>>> little difference in other times and circumstances.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Insofar as everybody uses abductive inference, Ben N. perhaps doesn't 
>>>>>> bring out clearly enough the difference between Hitler's use of it and 
>>>>>> others' use of it, instead he talks about how Hitler was the first 
>>>>>> leader to use it. I think I know what Ben N. is getting at, but I'd 
>>>>>> phrase it more carefully. Ben N. is saying that Hitler was the first 
>>>>>> leader to invite the public to follow a pattern of abductive inference 
>>>>>> like in a detective story (Who Murdered Germany?), and that Hitler 
>>>>>> relied for credibility on the justificatory plausibility and complex 
>>>>>> cohesion of an untested hypothesis that would take a long time to 
>>>>>> verify. Well, there's more to it, which it would be foolish of me to try 
>>>>>> to summarize. I'd ask, is Ben N. so sure that Hitler was the first such 
>>>>>> leader? Many other regimes have 'explanations' that they give to their 
>>>>>> people, sometimes involving the idea of hidden forces behind events.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway, I'm enjoying reading it. One can certainly say that Ben Novak 
>>>>>> has made a serious effort, deserving of more attention than what some 
>>>>>> rather pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey stuff has received occasionally on 
>>>>>> peirce-l.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best, Ben
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 7/9/2015 7:12 PM, Edwina Taborsky wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ben, I'm going to disagree with your view that in order to discuss the 
>>>>>> basic issue of your book, namely, your attempt to correlate the rise of 
>>>>>> Hitler with abductive logic - that it requires that we either buy your 
>>>>>> book or read it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think that on a Peirce-list, the members ought to have a reasonable 
>>>>>> reading knowledge of Peirce's works, but I don't think that a research 
>>>>>> topic dealt with by a member requires that members of this list read 
>>>>>> that member's work. My view is that it is incumbent on YOU, to provide 
>>>>>> members with a reasonably thorough precis of the salient points of your 
>>>>>> argument.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With regard to the points you have so far provided, my concern is that 
>>>>>> you seem to be trying to imbue Hitler's rise to power with some 
>>>>>> 'magical' or mystical element.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For example, you claim that when his party took power, German politics 
>>>>>> consisted of 28 parties - why was Hitler's dominant? In Canada, at the 
>>>>>> federal level, there are 26 political parties - and there is nothing 
>>>>>> particularly magical or surprising that only three are dominant. There 
>>>>>> are about 30 minor political parties in the US. Only two-three are 
>>>>>> dominant.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Second, my concern is your method of explaining this history. You seem 
>>>>>> to be using what is known as the 'Great Man Theory' of historical 
>>>>>> analysis, which examines history by focusing on the charisma or whatever 
>>>>>> of some singular causal individual. I consider this a weak analytic 
>>>>>> frame; I prefer the 'long duree' framework of the 'Annales' school (eg, 
>>>>>> Braudel), which considers infrastructural causality such as the 
>>>>>> population size, economic mode, technological capacity, trade relations 
>>>>>> etc...rather than individuals.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As for fascism, it is an ideology of the mind, i.e., it is not rooted in 
>>>>>> pragmatic reality but in a notion of utopian purity of the past, such 
>>>>>> that 'if only we returned to that pure mode', then, all would be well. 
>>>>>> It is now rampant in the Al Qaeda (from the 19th c!) and ISIS of the 
>>>>>> MENA. There are, I maintain, population and economic reasons for the 
>>>>>> refusal of these populations and governments to deal with the pragmatic 
>>>>>> problems of the area and the  resultant retreat into fascism.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Same with Germany of the 1930s. And, once an infrastructure is set up, 
>>>>>> e,g, National Socialism's Third Reich, it is extremely difficult to move 
>>>>>> out of the rhetoric and back down to hard reality. That requires an 
>>>>>> external intervention. Certainly, internally, some tried to stop Hitler -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As for Hitler being logical - what??? I think some examples would be 
>>>>>> helpful. His behaviour around Stalingrad was hardly logical.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Is the popularity of various cult figures, of wealthy preachers, of  due 
>>>>>> to their being logical? Or for some other reason(s)?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What is abductive about Hitler's 'reasoning'?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Again, my view - and I say it is my view - is that the onus for 
>>>>>> explanation of a topic is not to have readers buy your book or read it 
>>>>>> online, but for you to explain key points to us - and then, explain why 
>>>>>> you align it with Peircean theory.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Edwina
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Ben Novak
>>>>>> To: Stephen Jarosek
>>>>>> Cc: Stephen C. Rose ; Peirce List
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 5:12 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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