List, Jeffrey, John S.

First, I would support further discussion along these lines.

Of course, I would think that a degree of balance should be introduced into the 
nature of premises.  There are deep mathematical issues involved in this rather 
casual conversations.

With this regard, John S’s slides of 1 August 2015 provide a counter point. 
(see slides 4, 5, and 6.)

Cheers

Jerry


> On Nov 14, 2016, at 3:45 PM, Jeffrey Brian Downard <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Jon S, Gary R, Edwina, John S, List,
> 
> If others are interested, I'd like to continue the discussion of the last 
> lecture on continuity in RLT. The goal, I took it, was to draw on it for the 
> sake of filling in some the details in the "table of contents" for a larger 
> set of inquiries that he sketched in "A Neglected Argument."
> 
> My proposal is to march through more of the mathematical examples he offers 
> in the hopes of getting more clarity about the logical conception of 
> continuity that he articulates. Then, the aim is to work up to the example of 
> the lines on the blackboard and the way that he uses that example to frame 
> some hypothesis in cosmological metaphysics.
> 
> Given the fact that my post on Desargues 6-point theorem did not generate 
> much in the way of comments or questions, I am concerned that I overdid it 
> and managed to smother some of the interest in the questions--both 
> interpretative and philosophical--that we were considering. As such, I'm 
> asking for feedback to make see if continued discussion of the mathematical 
> examples is welcome.
> 
> Late last week, I thought of a way to illustrate Peirce's larger point about 
> how the 6 point theorem is connected to the larger idea that Cayley and Klein 
> make about the character of the projective absolute and how it provides the 
> basis of any system of metrical relations in elliptical, parabolic or 
> hyperbolic geometries. The illustration helps to see, in a more intuitive 
> way, the point Peirce seems to be making about the kind of hypothesis that is 
> needed to make sense of the possibility of progress with respect to the 
> growth of our understanding or, more generally, with the growth of order in 
> the cosmos.
> 
> So, let me ask if there are any takers for continuing the discussion of RLT 
> along these lines?
> 
> --Jeff
> 
> Jeffrey Downard
> Associate Professor
> Department of Philosophy
> Northern Arizona University
> (o) 928 523-8354
> 
> 
> From: Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2016 10:55 AM
> To: Jeffrey Brian Downard
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Super-Order and the Logic of Continuity (was 
> Metaphysics and Nothing (was Peirce's Cosmology))
>  
> Jeff, List:
> 
> Did Peirce retain the notion of "the absolute" as he developed his conception 
> of a continuum in the last RLT lecture?
> 
> CSP:  The other rule that if A is r to B and B is r to C then A is r to C 
> leads to no contradiction, but it does lead to this, that there are two 
> possible exceptional individuals[,] one that is r to everything else and 
> another to which everything else is r.  This is like a limited line, where 
> every point is r that is, is to the right of every other or else that other 
> is to the right of it.  The generality of the case is destroyed by those two 
> points of discontinuity,--the extremities.  Thus, we see that no perfect 
> continuum can be defined by a dyadic relation.  But if we take instead the 
> triadic relation, and say A is r to B for C, say to fix our idea that 
> proceeding from A in a particular way, say to the right, you reach B before 
> C, it is quite evident, that a continuum will result like a self-returning 
> line with no discontinuity whatever. (RLT 250) 
> 
> Yesterday I came across an interesting paper by Nicholas Guardiano, "The 
> Categorial Logic of Peirce's Metaphysical Cosmogony" (The Pluralist 10:3, 
> Fall 2015, 313-334; early version at 
> http://www.american-philosophy.org/saap2014/openconf/modules/request.php?module=oc_program&action=view.php&id=28
>  
> <http://www.american-philosophy.org/saap2014/openconf/modules/request.php?module=oc_program&action=view.php&id=28>).
>   He describes Peirce's theory about the origin and development of the 
> universe from the standpoint of each Category, always in terms of three 
> stages.
> Secondness - chaos (1ns), reaction (2ns), regularity (3ns).
> Thirdness - spontaneity/chance/freedom (1ns), evolutionary process (3ns), 
> fixed end (2ns).
> Firstness - continuum (3ns), Platonic world of qualities (1ns), brute 
> existence (2ns).
> Guardiano thus presents the three most common interpretations, and does so in 
> this particular order.  I offer three observations about this, which may or 
> may not be significant.
> The Category that provides the point of view for the analysis always 
> corresponds to the second stage.
> The stage associated with Firstness always precedes the one associated with 
> Secondness.
> The stage associated with Thirdness moves from third to second to first in 
> the sequence.
> Gary R. and I have been advocating the Firstness perspective, while my 
> understanding is that Edwina primarily adopts the Secondness perspective.  
> The Thirdness perspective involves the hyperbolic absolute with two distinct 
> points, as Jeff described below.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jon
> 
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Jeffrey Brian Downard 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Jon, Edwina, Gary R, List,
> I've been studying projective geometry for a while in the hopes of getting a 
> better handle on these kinds of questions. Unfortunately, I am slow on the 
> uptake and my grasp of these mathematical ideas is still in its formative 
> stages.
> Having said that, we don't need to have mastery of this area of mathematics 
> in order to explore some examples.  So, let's consider the construction of 
> the 6 point theorem. Some background might be helpful for those who haven't 
> studied projective geometry. The general idea that drove the development of 
> this area of mathematics is taken from perspective drawing in art and 
> perspective geometry in mathematics.
> Here is a woodcut by Albrecht Dürer that nicely illustrates the key ideas. 
> From a point of perspectivity (the nail on the wail to which the string is 
> attached), a ray (the string) is extended through an image plane to a point 
> on some object, such as a lute. The image of the lute is constructed on the 
> image plane by taking a number of points where the rays intersect the image 
> plane. One could imagine a number of different perspective drawings being 
> constructed by altering the position of the lute in relation to the image 
> plane and in relation to the point of perspectivity.
> <pastedImage.png>
> In order to get an idea of what the absolute is in projective geometry, it 
> helps to think of it as a generalization of the horizon within perspective 
> geometry.  If we compare what happens to parallel lines in Euclidean geometry 
> and perspective geometry, we see that parallel lines never meeting in 
> Euclidean geometry no matter how far they are extended, whereas all parallel 
> lines meet at the horizon in perspective geometry.
> <pastedImage.png>
> Projective geometry is a generalization on perspective geometry. Let us take 
> the horizontal line in the construction of the 6-point theorem to be 
> analogous to a slice through the image plane in perspective geometry. Taking 
> a point Q as an origin that is analogous to a point of perspectivity, three 
> rays are extended through the horizontal line and the points of intersection 
> are marked A, B and C. 
> 
> <Desargues 1.png>
> 
> Taking a point on C as another origin (akin a picking another point of 
> perspectivity when drawing the lute), two more rays are extended through the 
> horizontal line and through the other rays with points A' and B' marked on 
> the horizontal line and points 
> 
> <Desargues 2.png>
> 
> Then, construct a line through the points  P and S where the rays intersect, 
> and extend it through the horizontal line to a point C'.
> 
> <Desargues 3.png>
> 
> How are the points on the horizontal line related under different 
> transformations? Well, move the origins around and see what you get (if you 
> want to try this, then download CarMetal, which is free, and make the 
> diagram). Here is one such transformation where the two origins have been 
> moved.
> <Desargues 4.png>
> 
> The diagram we have constructed is an example of a ensemble of the first 
> genus. There are a finite number of points and lines in the figure. Having 
> said that, we can see what is involved in an ensemble of the second genus if 
> we consider the continuous transformations of this diagram that can be made 
> by moving around the points at the origin. In this way, we now have an 
> ensemble involving an infinite number of lines and points. In order to 
> conceive of what a tout ensemble involves, we need to consider the space as a 
> whole in which the diagram has been constructed. Just as the drawing in the 
> perspective space has a horizon where the parallel lines meet, there is 
> effectively a generalization of the "infinitely distant horizon" that is 
> built into the very nature of the projective space. What is really neat about 
> projective geometry is that this notion of the infinite is part of the space 
> itself. It is unlike Euclidean geometry, where the infinite is an exception 
> to the rule that all lines intersect. In projective geometry, we get greater 
> symmetry and harmony in the construction of the space because all lines 
> intersect--including those that are parallel.
> 
> What more follows when we think about the character of the different kinds of 
> order that obtain between the points on the horizontal line? The key idea, I 
> take it, is that the line segments between these points A, B, C, A', B' C' 
> maintain relations of proportionality under all transformations. One reason 
> that the proof of this theorem is so important in projective geometry is 
> that, in effect, the rays from the two origins do not map onto some object 
> (such as a lute). Rathter, they "map" onto each other.  It would take some 
> time to explain what follows from this feature of the construction. So, for 
> those who would like a summary of the conclusions, here is a link: 
> http://www2.washjeff.edu/users/mwoltermann/Dorrie/63.pdf 
> <http://www2.washjeff.edu/users/mwoltermann/Dorrie/63.pdf>
> 
> The reason I have spent some time running through this example is that it 
> provides the resources needed to understand what Peirce is saying about the 
> mathematical conception of the absolute. For the sake of providing an 
> intuitive approximation of the conception of the absolute, note that the 
> horizon in perspective geometry is something that can be extended all of the 
> way around the point of perspectivity. Imagine standing at that point, 
> turning all the way around, and looking at the line that would be constructed 
> on the image plane if that plane were to circle around you. In effect, there 
> would be a circle draw on the image plane, where the image plane itself would 
> form a circular band (like a cylinder) around the point of perspectivity. 
> 
> In order to generalize that idea and apply it to projective geometry, we need 
> to remember that the projective plane is a generalization of a space (i.e., 
> one unified and homogeneous plane) in which any number of points of 
> perspectivity (origins) can be located, as can any number of image planes 
> (what we are treating as the horizontal line in our example).  So, if we 
> generalize, we effectively get an ellipse, parabola or hyperbola that is in 
> the projective space and that functions as a generalization of the infinitely 
> distant horizon in perspective geometry. The ellipse, parabola or hyperbola 
> are related to one another as so many different  conic sections. Just as we 
> can transform the diagram by moving around the origins, so too can the 
> character of the infinite horizon be transformed in that space. Those 
> transformation were seen by Cayley and Klein to be the key to understanding 
> how all metrical geometries are related to each other.
> 
> Peirce is arguing that we should picture the starting and ending points in 
> the evolution of the cosmos to be analogous to the starting and ending points 
> of inquiry. In both cases, if we map the transformations in our understanding 
> or in the universe onto a surface, they are related to each other in a 
> hyperbolic fashion and not in a parabolic or elliptical fashion. Only in the 
> hyperbolic case are we able to treat the loci on those curves that serve as 
> the bases of the metrical systems as both real and different.
> 
> Peirce is drawing on these points when he offers the examples in order to 
> work his way up to the logical conclusion that he draws about the conception 
> of continuity on page 253-4. Before turning to questions of metaphysics and 
> the example of the diagram of the lines on the chalkboard, it would probably 
> be worth asking if there are any questions about how Peirce is drawing on 
> these mathematical examples in order to clarify the logical conception? Much 
> of what he is doing is backing up from these sorts of points about the 
> absolute in projective geometry in order to ask yet more fundamental 
> questions about how the parts of such spaces (e.g., the projective space) are 
> connected when we study them in the context of topology.
> 
> --Jeff
> 
> Jeffrey Downard
> Associate Professor
> Department of Philosophy
> Northern Arizona University
> (o) 928 523-8354 <tel:928%20523-8354>
> From: Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Monday, November 7, 2016 11:41 AM
> To: Jeffrey Brian Downard
> Cc: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Super-Order and the Logic of Continuity (was 
> Metaphysics and Nothing (was Peirce's Cosmology))
>  
> Jeff, List:
> 
> I need to offer a correction (in bold) to one of your Pierce quotes.
> 
> CSP:  The Absolute in metaphysics fulfills the same function as the absolute 
> in geometry.  According as we suppose the infinitely distant beginning and 
> end of the universe are distinct, identical, or nonexistent, we have three 
> kinds of philosophy.  What should determine our choice of these?  Observed 
> facts.  These are all in favor of the first. (R 928:7, W 8:22; 1890)
> 
> As for your concluding question, I hope that you will share with us your own 
> answer to it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
> Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman
> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt 
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt> - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt 
> <http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt>
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