EGs are an acquired taste like frogs legs and kale. Words that survive have many permutations. I would never use myth to mean something not real or a lie. But there we have it. We are in a very binary phase. But when we come out of it we need to suggest that some things are ontological -- true regardless -- and liberal is not quite there but it is close because it is tolerant, democratic and helpful and these are three ontological action values that time will vindicate.
amazon.com/author/stephenrose On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 6:53 AM, Helmut Raulien <h.raul...@gmx.de> wrote: > Stephen, Stephen, List, > > I think it would be better, if in politics Peirce´s existential graphs > would be applied. Then it would e.g. be clear, that if "liberal" is inside > the cut, "fascist" , and "hammer and sickle" would be outside of it. Also > quasi-fascists calling themselves liberals, and people claiming the > existence of liberal fascists, would not work with EGs. > Also the sayings "The path should resemble the goal", and "the way to hell > is paved with good intentions" could be easily sketched with EGs, I guess. > The kinds of weird double-negations that are used in politics instead of > the Peircean cut should be analysed with Peirce, I think. Ok, who will do > it? > > Best, > Helmut > > 10. August 2018 um 19:51 Uhr > "Stephen Curtiss Rose" <stever...@gmail.com> > > I watched the move of folk like Dick Neuhaus and Mike Novak to the right > and felt it was as much economic motivation as anything else. Both > prospered. Meanwhile, Christianity and Crisis which was my roost at the > time went under. The liberal move to the right has had no discernable > effect on the Right's sorry performance including its present sad > captivity, My brand of liberalism which is not neo-liberalism but rather a > liberalism based on fairness and non-violence will eventually triumph as > the strong tree from which future politics can grow -- in a world of > democracies once today's miasm blows away. Think long-term. I suspect > Peirce did. > > amazon.com/author/stephenrose > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:29 PM, Stephen Jarosek <sjaro...@iinet.net.au> > wrote: >> >> The liberals of your experience remind me of the liberals that I used to >> identify with before I turned to the right. But times have changed, and the >> liberals of today are not what they used to be. This video clip reminds me >> of the reasons that I originally changed sides (I was ahead of my time J >> ): >> https://youtu.be/4Pjs7uoOkag >> >> So don’t apologize… get those who now routinely betray what you believe >> in to apologize to you… or walk away. >> >> sj >> >> >> >> *From:* Stephen Curtiss Rose [mailto:stever...@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 6:37 PM >> *To:* Stephen Jarosek; Peirce List >> *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Culture wires the brain >> >> >> >> Wow! The blanket lumping of liberals with the selected vignetter you give >> of fascist liberalism sounds a bit like Jordan Peterson skewering >> post-modernist French intellectuals. Most liberals in my experience are >> nonviolent, oppose war, and do not use clearly provocative lingo even if >> they are rabidly opposed to their opponents. They can embrace a >> democratic-socialist all the way to a necessarily blue dog type. I am not >> sure where the animus behind your words comes from but I am tempted to >> apologize. Cheers, S >> >> >> >> amazon.com/author/stephenrose >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:52 AM, Stephen Jarosek <sjaro...@iinet.net.au> >> wrote: >> >> HELMUT >” The "Left" do not utter "nonsense" by saying that there are >> more than two genders, but they (the "Left") are merely liberal, by not >> wanting to forbid anybody defining their own special gender, like "lesbian, >> gay, trans, both, none, or between man and woman...", if they feel one of >> those suits better to them than either "male" or "female". A culture that >> presses on everybody one of two labels is rigid.” >> >> The only duty we have is to respect one another. Most of us do not have a >> problem with people living out their personal preferences, so long as they >> respect others’ personal space. But people trying to foist “alternative” >> definitions into a culture and demand that they be observed are not liberal >> at all… they have an agenda and their demands are propaganda. >> >> HELMUT>”A rigid culture is more likely of starting a war than a liberal >> culture.” >> >> Many of us observing proceedings taking place in America would disagree. >> It is the Left in America that is agitating for war. They want to deny the >> Right their freedom of speech. They call anyone that they disagree with >> nazis. They want to deny a president that was democratically elected. Their >> fascism masquerading as antifascism is laughably transparent, and the >> violence of their Antifa reveals the mindboggling extent of their >> hypocrisy. History is repeating, and it is the Left that is at the center >> of it, fascism red in hammer and sickle. >> >> sj >> >> >> >> *From:* Helmut Raulien [mailto:h.raul...@gmx.de <h.raul...@gmx.de>] >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 8, 2018 6:32 PM >> *To:* tabor...@primus.ca >> *Cc:* Stephen Jarosek; Daniel L Everett; Peirce-L >> *Subject:* Aw: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Culture wires the brain >> >> >> >> Edwina, Daniel, Stephen, List, >> >> I agree with Edwina. I think there are social and altruistic instincts, >> but they may be destroyed by a rigid culture, and replaced with other >> instincts, which are "if-then"- routines, such as egocentric, tribal, and >> warrior instincts. >> >> I think, that the nature of humans is usually good, in a liberal and >> equality-supporting culture. But there are also sleeping bad >> predispositions, which may be awakened in a bad environment, for the >> purpose of surviving there too. But of course, a human always has choices. >> >> The "Left" do not utter "nonsense" by saying that there are more than two >> genders, but they (the "Left") are merely liberal, by not wanting to forbid >> anybody defining their own special gender, like "lesbian, gay, trans, both, >> none, or between man and woman...", if they feel one of those suits better >> to them than either "male" or "female". A culture that presses on everybody >> one of two labels is rigid. >> >> A rigid culture is more likely of starting a war than a liberal culture. >> In a war situation, bad instincts are awakened, up to making psychopaths >> out of people. A psychiatrist visiting a continuous war zone in Congo has >> said, the psychopaths ratio in the population was 70%. The other 30% >> remain, because people still have brains and choices. >> >> All this may have to do with "brain wiring", ok, but not with cultural >> relativity, as "rigid", "liberal", "equality-supporting", and so on are >> universal terms. >> >> Best, >> >> Helmut >> >> 08. August 2018 um 14:41 Uhr >> "Edwina Taborsky" <tabor...@primus.ca> >> wrote: >> >> Interesting - but - if you see our species [homo sapiens] as a kind of >> 'black slate' so to speak - then, how do you explain the fact that the >> infant has to be socialized; i.e., our species is not born with innate >> knowledge and requires a long nurturance period. And our type >> of socialization requires language. So- how do you get away from the notion >> that the requirement for language is innate? >> >> Edwina >> >> >> >> *On Wed 08/08/18 5:14 AM , Daniel L Everett danleveret...@gmail.com >> <danleveret...@gmail.com> sent:* >> >> >> https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/D/bo16611802.html >> >> >> >> https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/004132 >> >> >> >> Here are two recent works of mind on culture and cognition. I will be >> exploring these further in a specifically Peircean context in a book coming >> out next year from OUP. >> >> >> >> Dan Everett >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Aug 8, 2018, at 06:12, Stephen Jarosek <sjaro...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >> >> >> List, here's an interesting article that resonates with ideas that I've >> touched on in this forum (culture, neural plasticity, scaffolding, >> bucket-of-bugs... no such thing as instinct, no such thing as a >> "blueprint" >> that wires the brain). I'm not sure whether the author would take it as >> far >> as I do, but definitely of direct semiotic/biosemiotic relevance: >> https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/08/06/what-if-people- >> from-different-cultu >> res-and-economic-backgrounds-have-different-brain-wiring/ >> >> Barrett's paper also got me thinking about a point that I've been mulling >> over recently... the importance of initial conditions (scaffolding in the >> context of chaos theory)... the idea that experiences can never occur in >> isolation (objectivity), but must build on prior experiences >> (subjectivity): >> >> "This leads to another significant implication-that childrearing and >> early childhood experiences are more important than we thought. Not only >> do >> early experiences shape our personality and values, they also create the >> wiring that will govern our perception of the world far into adulthood." >> >> Initial conditions are particularly important in the cultural relativism >> debate, for example, where the Left entertains nonsense about more than >> two >> genders. Initial conditions based on childhood AND the body that you >> inhabit >> lock you into a fairly narrow trajectory, with the implication that you >> cannot just wake up one morning to decide that you're a special snowflake >> in >> the wrong body, and that you need to change genders. >> >> sj >> >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L >> but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the >> BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/ >> peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" >> or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should >> go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to >> PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" >> in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/ >> peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L >> but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the >> BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/ >> peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" > or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should > go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to > PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" > in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/ > peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >
----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
