BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }I
question the use of off-line comments to support the analysis and
conclusions of an argument.
Off-line comments are usually in support of a poster and do not, in
themselves, include any argument. If they did include data and
analysis - then, they would be posted to the list.
So, I don't think that JAS can consider off-line comments as
'argumentatively' supportive - so, there's no need to send them to
anyone else. After all - just because someone agrees with me [and my
argument] doesn't mean that I or they, are right in this opinion. We
can see that problem in the, at one time, strong popular support for
witches-causing-illness.
I think an argument has to stand on its own merits.
Edwina
On Fri 22/03/19 2:10 AM , John F Sowa [email protected] sent:
Jon and I had an offline exchange. He sent me a list of offline
comments by readers who were also misled by the ambiguity in the
word 'subject'. See the *anonymous* comments below.
A mistaken interpretation of just one word is not a big deal.
But Jon's claim that a subject could be a Seme contradicts the
foundations of Peirce's semeiotic.
I have no desire to continue this debate. But I persisted because
it would be unethical to allow an email list devoted to Peirce's
philosophy to undermine the foundations he so carefully constructed.
Summary of the main thread:
1. In CP 4.538, Peirce said that the triad Term, Proposition,
Argument
had to be widened, and he proposed a new triad Seme, Pheme,
Delome.
In 4.539, he discussed issues about percepts, which showed why
the
category Seme needed to go beyond purely symbolic terms.
2. But Jon claimed that the triad Subject, Proposition, Argument
would
be an appropriate widening. He was misled by an ambiguity in
the
word 'subject'.
3. But that triad would contradict the foundation of Peirce's
system.
A Seme is a First. It represents a pure possibility, such as a
Mark/Tone, Potisign, or Qualisign. But a grammatical subject
in
language refers to something that exists. It is a Second, such
as a Token, Actisign, or Sinsign. To claim that a grammatical
subject could be a Seme would break the system of categories.
The reason why Jon was misled is that the word 'subject' without
any qualifiers is ambiguous. A Term in Aristotle's syllogisms may
be used in either subject position or predicate position. As a
Term without an indexical word in front (a, some, any, every...),
it would be a predicate, which is a Seme.
But a grammatical subject refers to something that exists (or is
assumed to exist) in the Universe of Discourse. That kind of
subject would be a Second. It would be a Pheme, not a Seme.
That's all there is to the debate. But it has ramifications that
get into many abstract issues about Peirce's logic and semeiotic.
I admit that those details often obscured the basic points.
If anybody has any doubts or questions about any of these issues,
I'd be happy to explain them.
John
__________________________________________________________________
JAS
> I also received several offline comments from different sources.
#1
> As for John’s post, I wasn’t really able to thread my way
through
> his maze of abstractions (maybe due to lack of interest), so I
can’t
> really advise on how to respond to it. I’m not at all tempted to
> respond to it myself, as I don’t think I could find anything
positive
> to say about it.
#2
> I agree with what you wrote ... Yet the mystery remains, why would
> a seasoned logician like John see it any other way?
#3
> I think your two most recent posts to the list are both quite
good.
> We’ll see how John responds. The one thing I’m pretty sure of
is
> that he’ll never say that he was wrong, except in some minor
detail.
#4
> John, who has written two widely read books on KR, has been
thought
> of by some, including me, to be one of America's strongest
logicians.
> But what he's recently been writing has me mystified.
#5
> I think John's the one grasping at straws. But he's probably right
> that continuing the thread is a waste of time, because you've made
> your point and he's not going to admit it no matter what you say.
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