Dear Margaretha, JAS, Edwina, list,
Why pay deliberate and careful attention to - argument as war - argument as a tennis tournament - argument as constructing a cathedral - argument as dance - argument as repairing a ship in the middle of the sea - argument as computer programming When *Do not take offense *will do, *amirite*? Or better than even that, (in the form of an imperative): Do *both*! *everyone *would (a) refrain from posting "you" messages, especially when the subject matter is potentially contentious, and (b) deliberately choose *not *to take personal offense at anything posted by anyone else. Hope that helps. With best wishes, Jerry R On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 2:03 PM Margaretha Hendrickx <mahe3...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all. > > Yes, I believe it can be fixed. It is a manner of deliberate and careful > attention to the metaphors one uses while arguing, Lakoff & Johnson's > *Metaphors > We Live By *opened my eyes to the choices we have on *how *to argue: > - argument as war > - argument as a tennis tournament > - argument as constructing a cathedral > - argument as dance > - argument as repairing a ship in the middle of the sea > - argument as computer programming > > Each one of these metaphors sets up written argumentation in subtly > different form highlighting subtly different dimensions and downplaying > others. It is all a manner of deliberate and critical self-reflection on > what one gets from being and participating on this ListServ. > > In case you wonder about my agenda, I am on this list to learn more on the > received views on semiotic triangles, and how to generate more global > awareness about this structure, and how to use it effectively precisely to > reduce the likelihood of frustrating misunderstandings. > But I have to admit that I needed to be educated about the omnipresence of > spatial metaphors in human communicative processes before I fully grasped > how to put semiotic triangles to work. > > I am still learning about whether Peirce had a unique theory of metaphor > usage or whether there is such a thing as Peirce's own metaphor > theory-in-use. > > So far, Stephen Pepper's (1942) *World Hypotheses * has been most helpful > for me to put the work of Lakoff and Johnson in the larger context. > > My very best, Margaretha H. > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: > >> Jerry - yes, we know what the problem is. The question is: >> >> 1] How do we fix it? And even.. >> >> 2] Can it be fixed? >> >> My answer to 2 is: No. Because we can't deal with 1. >> >> Edwina >> >> >> >> On Wed 06/10/21 2:10 PM , Jerry Rhee jerryr...@gmail.com sent: >> >> Dear Edwina, Jerry, Bernard, list, >> >> >> Why so pessimistic? >> >> I mean, we at least profess a dogmatic view that Peirce was a great >> philosopher, >> >> and as such, we would at least follow his method of mediation, amirite? >> >> .. because ‘spring to action’ and all that.. >> >> >> So then, what does one do, as Peirceans, when faced with tribal behavior >> in our own midst? >> >> >> For the problem can be stated as thus: >> >> >> And before a crowd means among the ignorant: >> >> for surely, among those who know, he will not be more convincing.. >> >> Therefore when the rhetorician is more convincing than the doctor, >> >> the ignorant is more convincing among the ignorant than the expert. >> >> >> >> With best wishes, >> Jerry R >> >> On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 12:58 PM Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> >> wrote: >> >>> I think it is very difficult to change this list. It can be difficult >>> to post, since one is so frequently met with, not a discussion, but >>> authoritative assertions of 'No, Peirce did not say/mean...that'... >>> >>> One doesn't find words like: "In my understanding' or 'in my view'. Or >>> 'I think that'. Instead, it's authoritative verbiage that is quite >>> relentless in claiming that you are quite wrong, you are not genuinely >>> following Peirce...and so on. >>> >>> It's almost like a tribal syndrome, where a few people consider >>> themselves 'Genuine Members of the Peirce Tribe'..and others are viewed as >>> outsiders with little claim or right to discuss the issues - and certainly >>> cannot claim membership with the select few. >>> >>> I doubt if this can change. >>> >>> Edwina >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed 06/10/21 1:30 PM , Bernard Morand morand.bern...@neuf.fr sent: >>> >>> Thanks Jerry for this reply and support. >>> >>> Unfortunately I have no complete answer to your pertinent question: >>> "What practical steps are necessary to re-enliven our community and our >>> communications? " >>> >>> Perhaps some listers actually silent have good ideas about that. They >>> ought to be encouraged to manifest themselves in some kind of "one hundred >>> flowers" campaign. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Bernard >>> Le 06/10/2021 à 18:03, Jerry LR Chandler a écrit : >>> >>> Bernard: >>> >>> On Aug 27, 2021, at 5:33 PM, Bernard Morand <morand.bern...@neuf.fr> >>> wrote: >>> >>> It is a good illustration of my feeling about the bad quality level of >>> the discussions on Peirce-l. >>> >>> >>> My feelings are fully parallel with yours. >>> >>> Your articulative description of the styles of communication denotes the >>> essential nature of the subjective logical fallacies that constrain the >>> discussions to the very, very narrow interests of some scholars. >>> >>> Such styles, while offering a sense of historical truth functions, >>> ignore the historically historic roots of CSP writings in centuries of >>> earlier scholarship as well as his extreme breath of knowledge and >>> imagination in mathematics, logic, physics, chemistry and multiple natural >>> languages, thereby reducing brilliance to dullness. The consequence is the >>> turning of lively ideas into deadly boredom. (If not even more deadly >>> complete mis-representation.) >>> >>> What practical steps are necessary to re-enliven our community and our >>> communications? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> Postscript for Robert Marty: Do you believe that CSP’s logic is >>> congruent with Robinson arithmetic? :-). >>> >>> >>> >>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >>> ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >>> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >>> peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . >>> ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to >>> l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of >>> the message and nothing in the body. More at >>> https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . >>> ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; >>> and co-managed by him and Ben Udell. >>> >> >> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ >> ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . >> ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to >> l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the >> message and nothing in the body. More at >> https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . >> ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; >> and co-managed by him and Ben Udell. >> >
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
