Where does Peirce talk about an "immediate representamen" (or an "immediate sign")? I can't think of any use he would have for such a term.
Joe Ransdell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frances Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:17 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: 1st image of triangle of boxes (MS799.2) Frances to Ben and others... In the decadic table or model, the ten classes of signs seem to deal with immediate objects, and dynamic objects, and sparse selections of immediate and dynamic and final interpretants. The decagon does not seem to deal with immediate representamens whatsoever, except perhaps indirectly or subsequently through immediate objects. The first class of signs, posited as qualisigns and sinsigns and legisigns, deals with the immediate objects of a representamen, and probably not with the representamen or sign vehicle itself alone. My guess is that immediate representamen are posited as potisigns and actisigns and famsigns, but are removed from the decadic table or model of semiosis, likely for some reason of expediency by way of illustrating the correlation and interrelation of signs. The present condensed table or model of semiotics as offered in its many forms does seem to serve that basic purpose well enough. The second class of signs, posited as icons and indexes and symbols, deals with the dynamic objects of immediate interpretants, of which immediate rhemes are merely one class of interpretant and indeed only one class of immediate interpretant. The third class of signs, posited as rhemes and dicents and arguments, deals partly with those interpretants that are respectively immediate and dynamic and final. They are only a partial selection, because they are not all the interpretants that are offered in semiosis. They are however trichotomic exemplars of their respected categories, in that rhemes are the first of three immediate interpretants offered, and dicents are the second of three dynamic interpretants offered, and arguments are the third of three final interpretants offered. This condensation actually yields a diagonal layout, which is unusual for categorical trichotomies, which are usually horizontal. Nonetheless, even this architectonic scaffolding is not categorically consistent with the structured trichotomies of phenomena, in that there should be only one immediate class, but two dynamic classes, yet three final classes. The class members of such monadic firstness and dyadic secondness and triadic thirdness would also each fall under there own class holder, presumably of zeroness. It is my suspicion that all the interpretants posited for semiosis are not all of grammatics, the first of the three grand semiotic divisions before critics and rhetorics; and grammatics which is also the sole basis of the decagon. One thorn here for me then is whether all the subsequent signs of critics and rhetorics are indeed only various kinds of grammatic or other interpretants. Another thorn here for me is whether semiotics can be complete at least to some degree, for say nonhuman mechanisms or organisms or even for mature humans, if only the grammatic division of signs is present as information, to the exclusion of critics and grammatics in any particular situation of semiosis. This of course implies that making signs to some extent, and thus making the logic of signs to some extent, and thus making the ideal sought seem real to some extent, is not limited only to mature intelligent humans. If this speculation of mine is correct, then just what role the decadic table or model of signs is intended to fully play as a degenerate condensation of logical semiosis becomes unclear to me, and there surely must be an important role. Given what is now known of Peirce, it would not be reasonable to hold the decagon as confused. --- Message from peirce-l forum to subscriber [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 --- Message from peirce-l forum to subscriber [email protected]
