Charles Brown wrote:
>> Brezhnev was to the left of the Bonapartes , FDR, and Krugman.<

my response:
> the words "right" and "left" have different meanings (if they have
> any) under the old Soviet mode of production than they do under
> capitalism. Brezhnev was just as interested in protecting class
> privilege as FDR, but it was a different kind of class privilege than
> under capitalism.

CB: > Well , I was joking a little, but,  no, this is not a good
understanding of the Soviet system or the Soviet Union in the whole
world political context, world political "left" and "right".  The
Soviet Union was not a new "class" system ( pace: Dijlas),
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/COLDdjilas.htm and the Soviet
bureaucracy was not a third class.<

I didn't say I agreed with Djilas (especially since I've never read
his stuff). It doesn't matter to me what kind of class system the old
USSR had. The Soviet elite prevented strikes, stomped on independent
labor unions, and squashed independent countries (e.g., Hungary,
Czechoslovakia). Somewhere Lenin said that classes define themselves
in struggle; they sure seem to have done so in the case of the old
USSR.

It's true they had a welfare state, but they also restricted rights to
free speech, assembly, & religion in a big way. That makes the normal
paternalism of a welfare state even more paternalistic. Their
elections were even more of a joke than the US ones.

One thing I wonder about is if the USSR was such a wonderful place
with so few contradictions, why did it snap like a dead twig at the
cusp of the 1990s?

>  With all its faults , failures, missteps, "crimes of Stalinists" et al, 
> ultimate "collapse",  the Soviet Union, and its leader Brezhnev ( at the time 
> he was its leader) were to the left of Krugman's ideology of  "verbal" Social 
> Democracy. <

The USSR's leadership was also very good at purely verbal social
democracy (hey, they supported "people's democracies" like Bulgaria
and Romania!), especially when advocating for the rights of people
outside of their sphere of influence. In fact, outside that sphere,
they sometimes actually helped people (e.g., helping the Cuban
revolution). But the elite of the other contending superpower (the US)
provided some support for people outside _their_ sphere of interest.
The two superpowers resembled each other in a lot of ways...

> So, it was definitely to the left , i.e. acting more in the interest of the 
> workers of the world, even if not "perfectly", than even the best politicians 
> and economists in the imperialists belly of the beast.<

the term "left" typically means fighting for (or at least supporting)
the poor against the powerful and privileged. Since the USSR's
leadership fought tooth and nail to protect its own power and
privilege, it's hard for them to fit that definition.

[The Wikipedia says: "In politics, left-wing, leftist, and the Left
are terms applied to various political positions associated with
progressive [??] causes. The term has had different meanings in
different countries and time periods. Originally, during the French
Revolution, left-wing referred to seating arrangements in parliament;
those who sat on the left opposed the monarchy and supported radical
reform. Later, the term became associated with socialism, communism,
anarchism and social liberalism. Today, in most of Europe, the Left
refers to socialist parties, while in the United States, the Left
usually refers to modern [New Deal] liberalism."]

-- 
Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own
way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante.
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