In reply to Joanna below: I want to congratulate you on your ablity to escape the programming of capitalist society. Why do you think you were successful but others are not? Were you just lucky? Was it hard work over time, or a single moment of enlightenment? Was it like in The Matrix, where the protagonist takes a pill?
I have to say, you read quite a bit into what I wrote, which was to present a hypothetical to contemplate how life in a socialist society would actually work. You seem inclined to believe that every, and I mean EVERY, person in the society would have the correct consciousness so that it would be impossible for there to be an actual, existent person whose goals and interests are not in harmony with everybody other person. OK, that is an understandable position. Not very compelling to me, but understandable. David Shemano >> "But what if I, an individual living in a socialist society, have no >> subjective interest or >> desire in performing janitorial services?" >> >> 1. You're positing a "me" vs "society" model which you have been programmed >> to >> take for reality as a result of living in a culture that does not see the >> connection >> between the individual good and the common good. >> >> 2. You're assuming that manual labor is ipso facto bad and to be shunned, >> again as >> the result of programming that makes invidious comparisons between mental and >> manual work. >> >> "Maybe there will be a happy coincidence that there will be people who >> "want" to >> perform such services, so I will not "have" to do my share. But what if >> there is not such >> a happy coincidence? Could I be "required" to do something in a socialist >> society?" >> >> With respect to the sort of consciousness that a socialist society might >> inspire, you are >> acting kind of like a child or adolescent who doesn't want to eat his >> spinach, brush his >> teeth, etc. >> >> " How would that mechanism work, and why would not that mechanism be >> philosophically incompatible with the experiential status of freedom as >> opposed to >> necessity?" >> >> You're hardly likely to be "free" living in mountains of garbage. Your >> freedom might >> also be affected by the unfreedom of illness that results from living in >> garbage. >> >> In short, you mistake freedom for license and do not see that freedom and >> necessity >> are intertwined. You must satisfy your hunger in order to act freely. You >> also mistake >> the deeper meaning of freedom if you imagine that you can obtain it at the >> cost of >> another's unfreedom. >> >> A friend of my parents, a nuclear physicist, once recalled the day, after >> the second >> world war, when she was allowed to return to the physics institute in >> Romania and to >> work. The institute had been bombed and even the sections of it that were >> usable were >> full of dirt and debris. She began her work in physics, by washing the >> floor. She told me >> it was the happiest day of her life. >> >> You cannot understand socialism or how to build it so long as you do not >> recognize the >> extent to which all your notions of humanity and freedom have been shaped >> under >> capitalism. It requires more than intelligence to see this; it requires >> imagination and an >> actual and deep interest in something more than your personality. >> >> Joanna >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pen-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >> >> _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
