On Aug 8, 2011, at 2:17 PM, Julio Huato wrote: > Shane Mage wrote: > >> (ad 2) "Consciousness of necessity--of cause and effect" is equally >> impossible. >> To have such consciousness means awareness of the whole >> chain of >> cause and effect--ie., of everything that exists and ever >> has >> existed in the universe. > > Nowhere do I say that there is (or even that there will be) an > absolute identity between subject and object.
On the contrary. In inner-directed meditation there is such an absolute identity between the subject (the meditating self) and the object (the self to which the meditation is directed). > Like Carrol, who is > clearly not saying that we live already in a free society, I'm also > talking about what that free (or more free) society would be like. The notion of "society" was totally absent from he discussion commented upon. But what in Hades's name is a "free" society? Is it a society in which all the individuals are "free?" But what then means "freedom" in that context? You may properly conceive your body as a social organism composed of various bacteria, cells, organs, etc. But if you find yourself with a "free" (ie. mobile) kidney or a "free" bicuspid you're scarcely free to avoid a relatively speedy trip to the doctor or dentist. > So, implicit is the notion of a *process* -- the development of > society (which I view essentially as the development human productive > powers and, along with it, cognition). But every process, as well as every thing, (if you insist on that dichotomy) in the material universe is caused, is totally determined. So what's the point in invoking "process?" The phrase "freedom is the recognition of necessity" is a cliché often thoughtlessly repeated, as though it had any meaning outside the specific place it holds in Hegel's "Science of Logic." Otherwise it makes no sense. When Wotan, the supreme god, comes to recognize the necessity to which he is subject (in die Walküre, Act II) it is the furthest thing from liberatory: "Ich Unfreiester Aller!" Shane Mage "scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to" _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
