huh? you didn't answer my questions, Yoshie.
On 10/25/06, Yoshie Furuhashi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/25/06, Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/25/06, Yoshie Furuhashi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > American leftists can't live with what's imperfect but is still worth
supporting. <
>
> who are you talking about? are you talking about me? or am I not an
> "American leftist"? show me one example where I embraced
> perfectionism, please.
>
> what does "worth supporting" mean? I can see several different kinds
> of "support," including:
>
> * support Iran against imperialism (as embodied in US foreign policy).
>
> * support Iran as a democratic workers' state on the road to
> feminist-minded democractic socialism.
>
> * everything in-between.
The last time we talked about anything constructive and
forward-looking here concerned the Mexican elections and the AMLO
campaign. Paul proposed that it might help the campaign for PEN-l
economists to sketch out an alternative budget or something like that.
On 9/13/06, paul phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Julio,
>
> I think one modest proposal that the parallel government might consider
> is the 'alternative budget' approach pioneered by John Loxley at the
> University of Manitoba. Using his skills and knowledge in economic
> development and in government finance and community development, he
> organized unions, health ngos, teachers, feminist groups, interested
> academics, etc. into a consultative process leading to the development
> of alternative budgets eventually at the local, provincial and federal
> levels. These budgets, which reflected a democraticly arrived-at
> social agenda, were released just prior to the official government
> budgets. Subsequent publicity of what social gains were possible to
> achieve was used to pressure governments to adopt more progressive
> programs and to undercut the governments usual mantra of TINA. They also
> undercut the elite's claim that progressive policies were irresponsible
> or would hurt the economy but rather, undercut the governments elite agenda.
>
> Paul P
It appeared that many thought that would be interesting and
potentially useful. I don't know if anyone from PEN-l actually
followed up on that. Maybe nobody did, as everyone is busy.
But, still, that kind of attitude would be more constructive: take a
stock of a country's conditions (history, economy, culture, etc.),
evaluate social forces in it, identify political opportunities that
exist in it, etc.; and think about how that country's struggle might
fit into an overall scheme of things.
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >You can call them leftists in rich countries or leftists in the global
> >North if you like. To me, they all mean the same thing, except
> >"Western leftists" has a virtue of brevity.
> >--
> >Yoshie
>
> That is just as bad. You are again resorting to an essentializing
> technique. We are dealing with ideas, aren't we? What difference does it
> make where people live? But you are too smart not to know what kind of
> device this is. It is your version of the epithet "petty-bourgeois" that
> was frequently used in Marxist debates in the past and that is intended to
> stigmatize your ideological adversaries. It is also very clear from your
> use of the term that you do not include yourself since the implication is
> that you have achieved a virtual flight from the decadent West into the
> vibrant East.
It seems to me that without identifying the aforementioned predominant
tendency that does exist on the Western Left it is impossible to
overcome it. It's like it's impossible to overcome sexism or racism
or whatever without first recognizing it as a problem.
--
Yoshie
<http://montages.blogspot.com/>
<http://mrzine.org>
<http://monthlyreview.org/>
--
Jim Devine / "I wanna be with you in paradise / And it seems so unfair
/ I can't go to paradise no more / I killed a man back there." -- Bob
Dylan.
