It's incomprehensible to me that anyone would say Smalltalk shouldn't evolve and improve. Smalltalk isn't perfect; nothing is. Smalltalk isn't the final word on software engineering. Of course it should evolve. And I like the direction that Pharo is taking it.
Even the language aspect (syntax) could evolve, if only slightly. Perhaps we can make a *small* concession to concurrency, for example. Nearly every recent modern language has strong concurrency features to support multi-core processors. Ben Coman wrote > On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Aaron Rosenzweig < > aaron@ > > > wrote: > >> For a long time, the term GNU didn’t mean much to me. I knew it was “the >> free software foundation” and was related to “CopyLeft” which is a bit >> tongue-in-cheek… meaning that free software should always be free and >> open >> source… the opposite of a “CopyRight” >> >> One day, I stopped, I looked up GNU. >> >> The “G” stands for “GNU” so it is recursive as in: >> GNUNUNUNUNUNUNU…. >> >> So what about the “NU” part? that stands for “Not Unix” >> >> So GNU is an emphatic statement screaming that the free software >> foundation is “Not UNIX” !!! >> > > Interesting that in parallel I came to use the same example :) > > >> >> I was shocked at first… because to me they are at the base of UNIX. The >> GCC compiler, everything… But what they really mean is that when they >> started, UNIX was very pricey and only for large corporations, not for >> hobbyists, not for thinkers and entrepreneurs. Their software created the >> foundation for Linux which technically isn’t Unix but is “Unix-Like” - >> and >> very similar to SVR4 Unix. >> >> “Smalltalk” is a great name - you can learn all the syntax on the back of >> an index card. It’s “small” get it? But it also collides with “picking up >> chicks” and is somewhat confusing to do internet searches with. Not too >> bad >> but… “Pharo” does sound cooler. >> >> > > >> You are reaching out to the Pharo community and asking them to embrace >> “Smalltalk.” They don’t want to. >> > > Thats a bit strong for me :). But the next is certainly true. > > >> They don’t deny the lineage but they desire their own identity. >> >> > > >> Maybe instead of “Smalltalk Renaissance” you coin “PNS” - “Pharo Not >> Smalltalk” or… make the P stand for “PNS” so it is recursive. >> PNSNSNSNSNS…. >> > > > I don't think its fair to suggest Richard change his message (though I > note > your humour, I just want to be clear to support Richard here). His stated > scope is wider than Pharo. Its just that Pharo is a nice poster child. > Now > "The Renaissance" produced many new schools of art, each a re-birth based > in its past but evolving to something new. I think Pharo aligns with that > interpretation, and it would be great if such is compatible with Richard's > goals. > > Now while Pharo wants to avoid the constraint of "being Smalltalk" - all > the great work of the the last four or more years has not shifted it > significantly away from being identifiable as "a" Smalltalk. I expect in > practice (looking in from outside) that to be the case for a while. > > > >> Hahaha, then again, try to pronounce PNS…. doh! >> >> In my mind… for a language / platform to pick up steam two things need to >> happen: >> >> 1) A consulting company needs to “kick butt” and “take names” using this >> technology >> >> 2) A charismatic speaker / author needs to create modern books and run >> around the country giving appearances and presentations. >> >> That is what happened with Rails which is in many ways a “Smalltalk >> without an image.” So it’s not like the minimal syntax and dynamic nature >> of Smalltalk is lost on the world… that is primarily what Rails >> developers >> relate with. >> >> With Ruby on Rails we have 37Signals as the consulting company that “did >> stuff” and cut out Java developers from projects. >> >> With Ruby on Rails we have Dave Thomas as the author and main charismatic >> figure at any programming conference he attends. >> >> It’s cool and it feels real. That was the secret formula to success. >> *Aaron Rosenzweig* / Chat 'n Bike <http://www.chatnbike.com> >> *e:* > aaron@ > *t:* (301) 956-2319 [image: Chat 'n Bike] [image: >> Chat 'n Bike] >> >> On Jan 1, 2015, at 6:26 PM, horrido < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: >> >> I think if Smalltalk has a negative connotation, you don't run away from >> it, >> you change it! That's what Smalltalk Renaissance is all about. >> >> Is changing a negative perception easier or harder than running away from >> it? That is a very interesting question, and there is no obvious answer. >> However, as I indicated previously, your attempt to run away from it has >> completely, totally, and utterly failed. Something to think about. >> >> >> >> Ben Coman wrote >> >> On Thursday, January 1, 2015, Ben Coman wrote: >> >> I refer to the two paragraphs following "On pharo being a new language". >> I think Sven's response addressed these the best. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797582.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> >> >> -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Renaissance-Program-tp4797112p4797590.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
