I want a clean and stable core.
me too.
Now you will not my core. Because there is no UI no announcement...
The way Rubric and GT-Tools were pushed into the core was a mess.
No I cannot let you to say that. I'm sorry. We spent 4 months cleaning
Nautilus
and Rubric is not optimal but we decided that forcing to adapt to Rubric
was a good move
for the next one. We did it to help
- breakpoints
- QA feedback
Rubric was pushed in Pharo over the summer. So if we cannot change
something as important that
that more than 8 months before the release then we should better stop to
do pharo.
Because for Rubric ***I*** planned it in advance with a stabilisation
phase.
Now Pharo 50 got far too many new features
We should have not include
Spur and release Pharo 50 without it
and keep new FFI and Spur for Pharo 60
and keep GTTools for Pharo 60
If this is your analysis then we are ok. Now you cannot tell me that
pushing rubric was a mess.
The state of the system (in particular the lack of good widgets) is a
problem.
Look at the keybindings why the keybinding is still the mess: simply
because all the widgets and tools
just nicely harcoded them.
It does not mean that we should not fix them but you cannot
fight day long against spur migration bugs
fight day long against FFI glitches
fix integration bugs of GT
and get more steam for the rest
Now let me tell you frankly I prefer to build useless mini new languages
than fighting with ugly widgets
so why did I supervised and worked with a guy to improve and push rubric?
Because it was needed.
Rubric is a big bad bunch of badly documented code
indeed it is badly documented. Now it has examples.
Now synectique and moose have been using in their product rubric.
with lots of copy-paste garbage - we should do better.
And since it was included I hear it was abandoned by alain
No alain helped each time we asked him but he has severe family problems
(the kind of problems that you do not
want to have but you have to face).
and TxText is the next.
What can we say?
I have no idea why igor disappeared and kind of divorced.
Now the design of TxText is nice and we will have to invest. Bricks
already used it and people looking
at it mentioned that it is good.
So the objectives is to drop rubric (because it is a hack and we know it
but a hack which supports embellisment and icons)
and use TxText.
I see up to no development for TxText.
The same for Athens, bugs or requests for conclusins I entered in
FogBugz are, or will be closed (timout)
because no one cares.
But you see you are becoming the most aware for athens
and what we should do is document document.
Now I got ****EXHAUSTED**** to document things that I did not build or
use daily. This effort for me is gigantic
and I cannot do it each time.
Instead Athens is used as it is or change by others just for its own
projects (roassal, Bloc, Brick).
Do you think that roassal is extended privately Athens. I would be
surprised.
I know that we all like what you did with the widgets because blocers
can work in athens with default widgets
and our goal is to throw all the morphic layer away and only use Athens.
Now we should give feedback to blocers
I personnally want to have new widgets, a real UI builder and
massively cleaning Spec.
me too, but what is the purpose of spec, if we replace all tools based
on spec (debugger/inspector/...) with GT-Tools?
We need a UI Builder and spec is a way to build widgets.
Now before we get the perfect solution we need to make sure that we
clean it.
I would like to do that with Peter.
But again there is no magic: some part of spec are ugly because of
design but others are ugly
because the widgets are poor.
Now for me I have no problem cleaning Spec even if at the end we replace
it by something else.
We did that for the compiler, we are doing it for Morphic, ....
Now I would like to have multiple tool sets - I understand that
people like the new debugger (I do not like it) -
I want the possibility to have a mini tools tool set.
If you want to clean Pharo
I fix bugs, there are many bugs.
I know nicolai and I understand your frustration and I understand it:)
I thank you everyday for that.
I think that we should remove things from Pharo
So the most important point for us is to get in place a process so that
we can avoid to get monolithic again
For example we need a process to have the possibility to remove project
from the image and still build and modify an image with them.
It will not change the problem that when a bug is there we have a bug
but it should lower the stress.
you can start cleaning Komitter stupid use of state pattern
generating
a lot of garbage instead of having a single animated morph.
We should clean Versionner- I have the impression that half of the
classes are not mandatory.
Our tools are in a much more worse state than in Pharo 4, not clean,
not stable.
Where?
Nautilus is much better to me.
I used Versionner and it is working.
CodeCritics
I got some glitches with refactorings
Do you have some issues?
We are in code freeze since 6 weeks, and there are still many new
changes instead of only bug fixes.
I thought that it was not the case and I do not think so.
So this is side effect of the cleaning of foundations.
The problems is that we cannot block people working on the bootstrap
forever.
So nicolai what I would do is a roadmap for Pharo 60
- there will be no Spur and FFI :)
- so it will be consolidation
- I would like to have release every six months (but it should be
discussed)
- for me I would like to have
- cleaning Spec
- cleaning another time nautilus
- cleaning versionner
- cleaning Komitter
- Now we have epicea waiting
- So Xtreams will be probably for later.
