> On 08 Jul 2016, at 12:21, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Le 8/7/16 à 11:44, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : >> Do you think professional developers who use Pharo all day like crashes or >> hangs ? We are all the same here, we want a stable system. >> >> It is not certain that the catalog download is the problem. >> >> This specific feature that you think should only be enabled by those who >> want it (you call them pros) is exactly a beginner's feature: a way to >> discover every external library written. How ironic that you don't care. > > Sven the students we have are not looking for published packages and if they > need, they can use the catalog: entering XML and pressing ok > there is simple enough. It is not a complex ui. Spotter is a lot more > confusing than the catalog UI. But dogma says the inverse so I will stop > arguing.
Well, you won, the feature is gone. >> >> Yes, newcomers hit all kinds of issues that more experienced users >> subconsciously avoid, being mindful for that is important. I think we all >> try to do that, by fixing things, not by turning things off. >> >> We lack a proper process to decide these kinds of conflicts. >> >>> On 08 Jul 2016, at 11:21, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Again again and again: How many times do you see students having Pharo >>> frozen because the internet connection in the classroom is fleaky. >>> >>> Apparently turning off these people is not an issue to you. Perfect but it >>> is one for me. >>> >>> For your productivity boost why can't you click on one setting and put it >>> on? >>> >>> Tell me I do not understand. In my dev image I have several settings set >>> for my own usage. >>> >>> So why you cannot have one extra one? Especially since preferences are >>> loaded automatically. >>> >>> >>> Then when we will find a way to address the real problem we can just turn >>> the setting on. >>> >>> I will have spent half of my life showing software to newbies and may I ask >>> you when is the last time >>> >>> you show Pharo to a guy that is learning programming? I do that often (may >>> be too often) >>> >>> and in bad situation like in Afrika but not only. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 6/7/16 à 20:19, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : >>>> I'll try once more to explain. >>>> >>>> You like the catalog, don't you ? It was your idea in the first place. >>>> With this feature you can just type XML, CSV, JSON or whatever and it will >>>> suggest a couple of catalog projects that you can install with just one >>>> click, no need to open any tool you don't even know. This is especially >>>> good for new people. IT IS A FANTASTIC FEATURE, IT IS THE WAY THINGS >>>> SHOULD WORK. It leverages all the work put in the catalog. >>>> >>>> Is Spotter or any other part of Pharo perfect ? No. >>>> >>>> For many people, Spotter make a huge functional difference, we use it >>>> every minute. If it would hang or block the image even once a day, any of >>>> us would complain loudly. >>>> >>>> Conclusion: it works for 99% of the people/cases. >>>> >>>> Even in the 1% where there is a problem, it is not 100% sure it is related >>>> to the catalog searching. In the last concrete issue reported, the guy >>>> tried disabling the catalog searching AND IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE ! >>>> >>>> So again, why turn it off ? It is an overreaction, not engineering. >>>> >>>> The underlying problem is that in some very rare, hard to reproduce cases >>>> we cannot reliably detect that there is no network. That's about it. >>>> >>>> Note also that almost every application or app today will do some network >>>> calls, this is how the world work - we should be able to do the same with >>>> Pharo, not run away and kill every feature that does a network call. >>>> >>>>> On 06 Jul 2016, at 18:14, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Who vote to put it in? >>>>> >>>>> Seriously I think that my main concern is about getting Pharo stable in >>>>> any occasion and not giving >>>>> >>>>> a bad impression of the system. I takes enough time to build traction and >>>>> such glitches can spoil >>>>> >>>>> our effort in no time. "Yes Pharo froze." >>>>> >>>>> So it would be nice to care take of such aspect. >>>>> >>>>> I do not understand why super users do not manage to put a reference to >>>>> on in the preferences. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry esteban but I do not buy your argument that something off is >>>>> remove. No it is off. >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>>>> On 06 Jul 2016, at 09:52, GitHub <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 18674 Turn spotter catalog off by default >>>>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18674 >>>>>> We did not agree on this, at all, there was no public discussion, no >>>>>> vote. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > >
