Hi Hernan
First thanks for your email because we may disagree but we often agree.
:) so this is an email for me.
Hi Stef,
Good communication implies being clear when writing about sensitive
topics, especially when communicating through virtual channels. I am
not in Europe, so I cannot discuss these things with you face to face.
This is what we want to change with montly videos meeting.
Therefore is not clear to me (and others) what are your policies in
many subjects. Lately I also delayed the release of packages because
my lack of motivation around this community, specially when
discussions exists around three or fourth topics for months.
Like what?
Let us know because we do not
Another "motivational" case for me. I stopped to report bugs in fogbuz
because I felt there was too much "Won't fix" for me (specifically by
a person but I won't go there...) even in cases where it was ilogical.
Then I felt tired of reading "It's like that. Invalid".
This is a pity.
I know the feeling because some of mine are close too. You are not the
only victim of the "Issue closing syndrom" ;).
And I would like the syndrome to be more human friendly. Thanks for
raising this point.
Now two points
- You should always send a mail to the mailing-list and that we
discuss your points.
- Now what will happen if we all open bugs and none of us works on
the open bugs.
So what is the solution for you. I mean it concretely. How to deal with
dying
Looking at bugs is really difficult. There are not enough people looking
and fixing bugs.
About features.
What's the policy about voting for default features in next Pharo
images? Let's suppose I am a VM/core Pharo maintainer and I want to
include MySuperPackage into a Pharo release, which nobody needs (and I
don't care), but it is useful to me.... there will ever be voting
there? (note it doesn't makes sense if you are a group of 50 always
supporting your work)
It does not really work because engineers are paid for certain task.
Images are becoming huge (at least for my workflows). There will be
(more) packages included by default (for promotion?) ?
Thanks to raise this point because I mentioned it also to the board. So
I like when I'm not alone.
Now we should not see look only at the size. Doing nothing is size zero :)
The point is what are the functionalities delivered.
Three points:
- what are the key things we want?
keybinding, settings, cool inspector cool....
- how many duplicated functionality can we remove:
for example I want to merge MCDefinitions with Ring with
RBDefinition
we removed pseudo*
but this is a lot of work
The goal is to throw many system when bloc and brick are ready
- what is the list of things that you would remove?
- with the bootstrap and all the packages of the image managed with
Cargo plus the git management
we believe that we will be able to manage a set of images with
minimal images.
- this is several years that we are working on this goal.
Believe me this is the vision document not for the sake of it.
How do you plan to manage if some people want the Tests be removed
from the official Image? (Personally I never run them)
- then you use a jenkins job to produce your image where you unload
the tests.
Another example, what happens if another research group came with a
better alternative to Calypso, Brick, Telescope, Bloc. Would you
integrate first your tool to mark territory?
No this is not a question of territory. Doru and GT does not do
that in that spirit.
RMOD too. We do something when we think that this is better.
For example Epicea is three years of work of Martin, Fuel was so
nice that we could not lose it.
You see Ghost got changed by denis, Seamless got rewritten from
scratch.
Who decides? For example (IIRC) TxText and Twisty.
Igor looked at Twisty seriously and I do not think that it could
handle large cobol files.
(you see funnily denis is doing the same with Seamless - He rewrote
it from scratch while
nick worked on it for several years).
Igor wanted to have a stream-based API that could work on modern
command-oriented videos card framework.
My team (on our own money if you understand what it means)
paid Igor to build TxText (and I can tell you that I would have
prefered him to do something else).
The same applies if anyone came with another rewrite of classic
Smalltalk Workspace, Debugger and Inspector tools, what would you do
with GT? GT stays because it came before and others would be optional?
No this is not like that.
If you are better or answer better needs.
There will be anything like PEPs?
I would love but will people have the energy to implement them?
I would definitively encourage you as a community to raise points
on what you need.
If someone can answer me I think that would be an example of good
communication.
Hernan I always answered your emails. I always consider your work
(and you know it for other reasons and by my facts) after I'm not always
in agreement as I'm not always in agreement with other board members and
this is how live happens.
What is clear is that the most important aspects is to continue to
communicate. This is why the board is launching
this initiative and I would love to see it taken by people even for
their projects.
Hernán
2016-08-24 1:51 GMT-03:00 stepharo <steph...@free.fr
<mailto:steph...@free.fr>>:
Hi guys
the board got a good discussion at ESUG about how to improve and a
lot of the discussion turned around improving communication. We
got some ideas that we will propose soon but I would like to get
*your* ideas.
If you have idea about improving communication around pharo please
tell us.
Stef
