Guys, Please stop speculating, no it is not Monticello, no it is not HTTP access, no it is not networking itself, it is DNS resolution, in a very specific situation:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18281/NetNameResolver-class-addressForName-sometimes-hangs-when-there-is-no-network Note also that many, many people deploy Pharo in production contexts with heavy multi threading and networking loads with great success - that would not be possible if we did not get the basics right. Sven > On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:31, Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dimitris, > > but AFAIK when Spotter freezes it’s not using Metacello. It does an http > request to pharo catalog. Isn’t this a problem with http request blocking the > only thread that we have? > > Uko > >> On 9 Mar 2017, at 08:23, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I do not need to, the problem is obvious as the sun when one uses Monticello >> which can easily freeze the image on a slow connection. Still it's a >> Monticello problem, not a Pharo problem. But then that's not the most >> serious problem with Monticello. >> >> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 at 17:04, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: >> I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with Pharo. >> >> Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100% >> >> Phil >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and >> does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation of >> the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its would >> make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to exclude >> the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for beginners. >> >> Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No >> Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for pharo >> tool developers to use ? Yes >> >> I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big >> compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to >> working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to >> attract a lot more new users. >> >> My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo code, >> by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by the >> removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but thats >> a completely different thing. >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for-Airplane-mode-in-Pharo >> for keeping track of this >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > This is not only when teaching. >> > >> > I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. >> > >> > Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. >> > >> > We need an "Airplane mode" switch. >> >> That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. >> Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, >> so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent >> mode button on the background, >> or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> > >> > Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. >> > >> > Phil >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities >> >> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) >> >> and >> >> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their >> >> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until >> >> now >> >> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. >> >> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the >> >> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to >> >> do >> >> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) >> >> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of >> >> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to >> >> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can >> >> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is >> >> nothing >> >> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. >> >> >> >> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just >> >> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time >> >> anyway convincing the other side that we are right… >> >> >> >> Uko >> >> >> >> > On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad >> >> > french university >> >> > with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros >> >> > only and we can >> >> > go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >> >> > Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >> >> > >> >> > <sorry I could not resist> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, it most certainly should be. >> >> >> >> >> >> If only we could then tell user to type >> >> >> >> >> >> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >> >> >> >> >> >> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >> >> >> >> >> >> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >> >> >> >> >> >>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]>: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <[email protected]> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]>: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifact/report.html >> >> >>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c >> >> >>>>> if you >> >> >>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Also, I see >> >> >>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-SublimishTheme >> >> >>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> I don’t know. >> >> >>>> It shouldn’t :) >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and >> >> >>>> they should be in catalog) :) >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the >> >> >>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware >> >> >>>> of the >> >> >>>> two themes policy). >> >> >>> >> >> >>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >> >> >>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait >> >> >>> for P7, yes. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >> >> >>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward >> >> >>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And >> >> >>> showed >> >> >>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the >> >> >>> system. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- Pavel >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Esteban >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> -- Pavel >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Esteban >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Phil >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano >> >> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]> >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Hi, >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, >> >> >>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, >> >> >>>>>> and I like >> >> >>>>>> in general all this new additions. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated >> >> >>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didn’t integrated DarkMetalTheme: >> >> >>>>> My idea >> >> >>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and >> >> >>>>> allow people >> >> >>>>> to install other themes from catalog. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and >> >> >>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already >> >> >>>>> happened >> >> >>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we >> >> >>>>> needed to >> >> >>>>> clean up, not without problems. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> cheers, >> >> >>>>> Esteban >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed >> >> >>>>> to control the flow of issues... >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a >> >> >>>>>> good thing. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) >> >> >>>>>> frozen version? >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soon… *if* we can fix all things missing. If I >> >> >>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use >> >> >>>>>> linux and >> >> >>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why >> >> >>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that >> >> >>>>>> meant: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >> >> >>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo >> >> >>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that >> >> >>>>>> causes a >> >> >>>>>> callback problem). >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in >> >> >>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (I’m at the train >> >> >>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip >> >> >>>>>> (linux) >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need >> >> >>>>>> them) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> cheers, >> >> >>>>>> Esteban >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >
