Hi, yes, I know that the Spotter checkbox is a generic implementation and it is really cool. My point(s) is (are):
1) why are the checkboxes out of sync? When I added a checkbox to disable the QA Spotter plugin from within the QA settings, I reused spotters functionality, so enabling or disabling with change the status of both checkboxes and you don’t have to enable the functionality twice. 2) why are there 2 checkboxes? Because Esteban told me that it is confusing that when you search for critiques in settings you get duplicated results. That’s why I removed my other checkbox and rely only on Spotter settings. If there is a rule not to duplicate preferences, why is catalog not following it? Uko > On 9 Mar 2017, at 15:27, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > >> On Mar 9, 2017, at 3:22 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Yes, you are right Sven. >> >> When I disable network the Spotter is not freezing. Do we have a way to do >> the DNS resolution asynchronously? I mean, is it doable in Pharo 7 or it is >> a big problem. I’m not an expert in the questions that require VM, but it >> seams that http requests can be executed without blocking the UI thread, is >> it possible to resolve DNS in the same way? >> >> Uko >> >> P.S. why there are TWO checkboxes in Settings for the catalog plugin in >> Spotter? And they are not synchronized by the way, so you need to turn on >> both. > > Each spotter extension comes with checkbox to disable them. This is a generic > mechanism that is important for cases when people want to replace an existing > extension with another variation. For example, people might have different > preferred strategies to search for implementors (e.g., also search for class > names). > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> >> >>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Guys, >>> >>> Please stop speculating, no it is not Monticello, no it is not HTTP access, >>> no it is not networking itself, it is DNS resolution, in a very specific >>> situation: >>> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18281/NetNameResolver-class-addressForName-sometimes-hangs-when-there-is-no-network >>> >>> Note also that many, many people deploy Pharo in production contexts with >>> heavy multi threading and networking loads with great success - that would >>> not be possible if we did not get the basics right. >>> >>> Sven >>> >>>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:31, Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dimitris, >>>> >>>> but AFAIK when Spotter freezes it’s not using Metacello. It does an http >>>> request to pharo catalog. Isn’t this a problem with http request blocking >>>> the only thread that we have? >>>> >>>> Uko >>>> >>>>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 08:23, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I do not need to, the problem is obvious as the sun when one uses >>>>> Monticello which can easily freeze the image on a slow connection. Still >>>>> it's a Monticello problem, not a Pharo problem. But then that's not the >>>>> most serious problem with Monticello. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 at 17:04, [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with >>>>> Pharo. >>>>> >>>>> Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100% >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and >>>>> does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation >>>>> of the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its >>>>> would make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to >>>>> exclude the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for >>>>> beginners. >>>>> >>>>> Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No >>>>> Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for >>>>> pharo tool developers to use ? Yes >>>>> >>>>> I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big >>>>> compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to >>>>> working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to >>>>> attract a lot more new users. >>>>> >>>>> My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo >>>>> code, by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by >>>>> the removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but >>>>> thats a completely different thing. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for-Airplane-mode-in-Pharo >>>>> for keeping track of this >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> This is not only when teaching. >>>>>> >>>>>> I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. >>>>>> >>>>>> Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. >>>>>> >>>>>> We need an "Airplane mode" switch. >>>>> >>>>> That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. >>>>> Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, >>>>> so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent >>>>> mode button on the background, >>>>> or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. >>>>> >>>>> cheers -ben >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities >>>>>>> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until >>>>>>> now >>>>>>> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one >>>>>>> exactly. >>>>>>> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the >>>>>>> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed >>>>>>> to do >>>>>>> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) >>>>>>> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to >>>>>>> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can >>>>>>> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is >>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time >>>>>>> anyway convincing the other side that we are right… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Uko >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad >>>>>>>> french university >>>>>>>> with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 >>>>>>>> Euros >>>>>>>> only and we can >>>>>>>> go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >>>>>>>> Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <sorry I could not resist> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, it most certainly should be. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If only we could then tell user to type >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifact/report.html >>>>>>>>>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c >>>>>>>>>>>> if you >>>>>>>>>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I see >>>>>>>>>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-SublimishTheme >>>>>>>>>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I don’t know. >>>>>>>>>>> It shouldn’t :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it >>>>>>>>>>> (and >>>>>>>>>>> they should be in catalog) :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the >>>>>>>>>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not >>>>>>>>>>> aware of the >>>>>>>>>>> two themes policy). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >>>>>>>>>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait >>>>>>>>>> for P7, yes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >>>>>>>>>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward >>>>>>>>>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And >>>>>>>>>> showed >>>>>>>>>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the >>>>>>>>>> system. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- Pavel >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- Pavel >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I like >>>>>>>>>>>>> in general all this new additions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated >>>>>>>>>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didn’t integrated >>>>>>>>>>>> DarkMetalTheme: My idea >>>>>>>>>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and >>>>>>>>>>>> allow people >>>>>>>>>>>> to install other themes from catalog. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and >>>>>>>>>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already >>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we >>>>>>>>>>>> needed to >>>>>>>>>>>> clean up, not without problems. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I >>>>>>>>>>>> failed >>>>>>>>>>>> to control the flow of issues... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> good thing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) >>>>>>>>>>>>> frozen version? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soon… *if* we can fix all things missing. If I >>>>>>>>>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use >>>>>>>>>>>>> linux and >>>>>>>>>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that >>>>>>>>>>>>> meant: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >>>>>>>>>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo >>>>>>>>>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that >>>>>>>>>>>>> causes a >>>>>>>>>>>>> callback problem). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in >>>>>>>>>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (I’m at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> train >>>>>>>>>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip >>>>>>>>>>>>> (linux) >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need >>>>>>>>>>>>> them) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > www.feenk.com <http://www.feenk.com/> > > "Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle."
